Salvia Dorrii a great western shrub!!

Submitted by Weiser on

When we think of the Western U.S. we picture two plant comunities most often. The Deserts of the south west with their abundance of cacti and the sage brush steppe dominated by shrubs.
On the sunny, wind swept high deserts of the western US vast stretches of territory are dominated by shrub comunities. Artemisia, Purshia, Cercocarpus, Ephedra, Prunus, Chrysothamnus and Mahonia are very obvious and omnipresent. These and many others hidden throughout these steppes work well in a dryland rock garden as backdrops to the flowering herbaceous plants we cherish.
There is one shrub that occupies a prominted position in my garden. The gray aromatic mound, with dazzling blue/purple flower spikes in my garden is Salvia dorrii ssp.dorrii var.dorrii.
There are two subspecies in the S. dorii complex Salvia dorrii ssp. mearnsii from Arizona and Salvia dorrii ssp.dorii over the western states of AZ, CA, ID, NV, OR, UT, WA. Subspecies "dorrii ssp. dorrii" is further divided into four varieties based upon growth habit.

var.carnosa , a large-leaved erect shrub of Washington and Idaho southward through Oregon into extreme north-central California:

var.dorrii, a small-leaved erect shrub of southern Oregon and Idaho southward through the Great Basin of Nevada and western Utah to southeastern California and northern Arizona:

var.pilosa, a small-leaved erect shrub differing from var.dorrii by pilose bracts and calyx, in southern California and western Arizona with disjunct populations in the Lahontan Basin of northwestern Nevada and northeastern California;

var.clokeyi, a low mat-forming subshrub of the high mountains of Clark Co.,

Comments

Submitted by Hoy on Tue, 04/20/2010 - 11:49

I have a couple of Salvias but this one I am certain is impossible to grow for me! (We have another species of swallowtail too!).

Submitted by Mark McD on Fri, 04/30/2010 - 08:29

John, good featured plant exposé, this brings memories rushing back to when I lived in Washington State, and I made a series of trips in search of Allium robinsonii found only in Washington and Oregon along the Columbia River, although the species is considered extirpated from Oregon.  I finally found this rare species near Vantage Washington, among sandy "benches" along the Columbia River, narrow low flat areas just above the high water level.  What does this have to do with Salvia dorrii you ask?  Most often this delightful little flesh-pink Allium with dark stamens was growing at the base of Salvia dorrii shrubs, I suppose getting a modicum of shade.  The area in which these plants grew was pure sand.

There were a number of fine plants in these communities, but what struck me most were the beautiful small shrubs of Salvia dorrii, and as your photos show, the flowers and the colorful bracts make this one of the finest Salvia species.  No doubt is hardy, but I wonder how it would do here on the East Coast if planted in very sandy soil.  So, from your description of the subspecies and varieties, those plants I saw in eastern Washington would be var.carnosa?  Judging from the number of varieties and subspecies, and variety of habitats it grows in, surely there are growable forms.  This one moves up on my "must get" list of plants to try.

I've been entertaining a hybridization effort with Salvia, to produce hardier ones than the many tender ones currently being created.  As an aside, I'm also thinking about working on fall blooming hardy Salvia, such as the glutinous-leaved yellow-flowered S. koyumae, which can also be grown and flowered in shade.

Submitted by IMYoung on Tue, 05/04/2010 - 10:01

I admit it... we grow no Salvia species.... shock, horror!  :o
This Salvia dorrii piqued my interest, though and so I consulted the Royal Horticultural Society Plantfinder: http://apps.rhs.org.uk/rhsplantfinder/     to see if it might be available in the UK  
It IS listed.... but only from one nursery... and that is in France!
This may be of interest to European and UK members.... so here are the details:
www.senteursduquercy.com
Frederic Prevot
Mas de Fraysse
Escamps
Lot
46230
France
Salvia, Iris, Phlomis and drought tolerant plants. French National Collection of Salvia
species.

Submitted by Paul T on Wed, 02/02/2011 - 17:04

Ian and Maggi,

Do you really grow no Salvia?  Wow!  :o  I grow something like 30 different ones I would guess, although those aren't all different species.  The S. microphylla and greggii types do brilliantly here, as do so many other species.  I don't know S. dorrii though, as I have never seen it before now.  Thanks for introducing it John.

Submitted by Kelaidis on Wed, 02/02/2011 - 21:54

I have grown several forms of Salvia dorrii (although I have yet to get my hands on those tiny mat forming ones): they are all worth having, although they only bloom once--usually quite early in April and May. Salvia dorrii is obviously closely allied to Salvia pachyphylla, which is really a superior garden plant because the flowers last for months (at leat in Colorado): in my attached Blog you can see a specimen growing in a public park in Lakewood, Colorado that was still in full bloom in the autumn.

I think it is still worth growing dorrii since it blooms so well so early: hybrids between the two species are likely to be spectacular.

http://prairiebreak.blogspot.com/2010/11/naked-poetry-mine-forever.html

Submitted by Fermi on Thu, 02/03/2011 - 15:04

IMYoung wrote:

I admit it... we grow no Salvia species.... shock, horror!  :o

But Ian/Maggi,
what do you use with roast pork! :o

We also have a fair number of salvias but less than we could grow in Melbourne because of our frosts.
We had Salvia pachyphylla until the recent unseasonable rain :'( and will have to replace it and get S. dorrii from seed as it's allowed into Australia.
cheers
fermi

Submitted by IMYoung on Fri, 02/04/2011 - 09:38

Fermi wrote:

IMYoung wrote:

I admit it... we grow no Salvia species.... shock, horror!  :o

But Ian/Maggi,
what do you use with roast pork! :o

cheers
fermi

All sorts of things.... so long as its not sage!  :P

Submitted by cohan on Sat, 02/19/2011 - 20:43

Interesting post! I'm very interested in shrubby things of various sizes, besides adding shape and structure to plantings, I have fantasies that they may help moderate my fierce climate! To that end , I have been poring over the Alplains catalogue for interesting shrubs (there are many!) and this gave me one more to check--
they list several forms of S dorrii, including this one, the smallest and hardiest:
Salvia dorrii v. dorrii (24x30,Z4,P,L,1) ................................................................................. 30 seeds / $3.50
15834.69  (W) White Pine Co., NV, 7200ft, 2195m.  The usual showy spikes of purplish-blue bracts and blue flowers on dwarfer plants compared to the Washington population
size is in cm, height x width
photo: http://www.alplains.com/images/SalviaDorrii.JPG
S pachyphylla is also listed, rated z5...

Submitted by Lori S. on Sat, 02/26/2011 - 11:00

Cohan, Salvia pachyphylla, grown from Alplains seed, has made it through a winter here out in our boulevard (not the friendliest of conditions, with salt, ice, gravel from the road getting dumped on it).  It sent up a few additional stems last summer from what seems to be some sort of a spreading root system.  It's nothing to write home about yet - no blooms yet, but maybe some day?
I know that the local experts are growing other hardy, shrubby salvias here... I was very kindly given this cute little Salvia chamaedryoides last summer (thanks, Stephanie!!  :) :))

I'm very interested in seeing how both of these come through the winter.

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Submitted by Fermi on Mon, 02/28/2011 - 00:59

Lori,
I've found S. pachyphylla a delight with silver/greyish foliage and flowers of mauve-purple in reddish bracts (? trying to rely on memory so maybe unreliable!) but unfortunately it succumbed to our unusually wet summer and I have yet to re-establish it.
S. chamaedryoides spreads by stolons and by seed but it isn't too aggressive! A wonderful mass of grey in the rock garden; highlighted by blue flowers floating above the foliage - a great shrub.
cheers
fermi

Submitted by Weiser on Mon, 02/28/2011 - 15:48

Salvia pachyphylla is an early fall bloomer when there is little else in bloom. It takes center stage in my fall garden demanding your attention for three to four weeks. Humming birds and bees both seek it's nectar.

Here are a couple of shots of Salvia pachyphylla  from my garden.

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Submitted by Lori S. on Mon, 02/28/2011 - 20:03

Both S. dorrii and S. pachyphylla look like very fine plants.  Thanks for posting those tempting pictures, John and Panayoti!  It's great to have some later bloom, as in the case of S. pachyphylla... (though with fall-blooming species from more southerly areas, it's always a consideration whether they will bloom early enough here to prevent the buds being killed by frost... but I'm getting way ahead of myself - gotta winter it over a few more times first, or else this is all just wishful thinking anyway!!) 

McDonough wrote:

I've been entertaining a hybridization effort with Salvia, to produce hardier ones than the many tender ones currently being created.  As an aside, I'm also thinking about working on fall blooming hardy Salvia, such as the glutinous-leaved yellow-flowered S. koyumae, which can also be grown and flowered in shade.

Mark, does Salvia glutinosa fit anywhere into that scheme?  The flowers are rather more interesting than S. koyumae (which I am not familiar with, other than from googling just now) (though I understand part of the latter's appeal is its shade tolerance).  Since S. glutinosa seems to like rather more water than our otherwise-cool climate naturally provides, I wonder if it might not do reasonably well in shade also?  (Hope you know what I mean by that...  :P)

Kelaidis wrote:

I have grown several forms of Salvia dorrii (although I have yet to get my hands on those tiny mat forming ones):

Tiny, mat-forming ones?? Wow, sounds nice!

Submitted by cohan on Tue, 03/01/2011 - 00:32

'Fall blooming' are also words that worry me ;) though there are (frost tolerant) things in flower very late here-- native asters, non-native honeysuckles and violas have all been in flower here 6 weeks or more into our regular frost season, after lows of -10C or much lower..
For more sensitive species, I suppose it depends what their triggers are-cool nights? might flower in mid-summer ;) short days? by september, regular frosts are almost guaranteed, even if days may be warm....

Submitted by Mark McD on Wed, 03/02/2011 - 11:52

Weiser wrote:

Salvia pachyphylla is an early fall bloomer when there is little else in bloom. It takes center stage in my fall garden demanding your attention for three to four weeks. Humming birds and bees both seek it's nectar.

Here are a couple of shots of Salvia pachyphylla  from my garden.

John, Salvia pachyphylla looks to be a fabulous "must have" species, although I have not tried it yet.  I'm also a big fan of late summer or early fall blooming plants, and this would be a welcome addition.  I can envision growing it with the soft coral orange of Agastache (I have an aurantiaca x rupestris cross) which will grow here but they are not overly permanent (lasting 2-3 years), fortunately perpetuated by self-sown seedlings.

Submitted by Fermi on Sun, 03/06/2011 - 22:05

Fermi wrote:

We had Salvia pachyphylla until the recent unseasonable rain :'( and will have to replace it and get S. dorrii from seed as it's allowed into Australia.
cheers
fermi

Just checked the seeds we got from the NARGS Seedex and sure enough there is a packet of Salvia dorrii ssp dorrii ...donated by Weiser of NV! ;D
Hopefully I'll get these sown before we go to the UK for the Alpines Conference in April.
cheers
fermi

Submitted by Weiser on Mon, 03/07/2011 - 07:59

Glad to hear you receaved some dorrii to try. The key is to grow it dry once it is established.  In its native habitate around Reno it gets from 15-25 cm of moisture per season. Most of that coming in the winter and early spring.