Seed starting chronicles 2012

Tim wrote:

Great way of spending a winter's day...

Agreed!! ;D I plan on sowing seed today from the American Primrose society exchange and putting them under the growlights indoors. My NARGS seed haven't arrived yet, so I need to save space for them, which will be a struggle as there is only so much space under the lights and always way too many seeds to sow!

Euphorbia rigida - sown in greenhouse, germinated rapidly (seed had been stored for 7 years so very pleasing to get good germination)
Lesquerella intermedia & fendleri (SWNS)
Stachys coccinea (SWNS)
Chilopsis linearis (SWNS)
Erysimum wheeleri (SWNS) - all these sown with bottom heat in greenhouse
(there are also several yuccas germinating as above from 10/11 year old seed from Ron Ratko, and a couple of dudleya of similar age)
Lupinus versicolor - sown as the Euphorbia after chipping seed
Lomatium utriculatum - home saved seed sown outside in a cold frame (hadn't expected such rapid germination)

(I now have to remove the food from our fridge in the garage to make room for all the pots sown this January!)

Be glad you have that huge property! Where else should you plant all those plants ;)

Tim, so glad you started this 2012 topic, one of my favs for sure.  And thanks for making your photo large enough to see it full size to see all those perky seedlings and read the plant labels.  Good crop of southwesterners coming up there.  I've always wanted to try growing Desert Willow (Chilopsis linearis); but I don't think it could survive our New England climate.  It is rated zone 7-10, and for some smaller plants I will sometimes try "pushing the hardiness envelope" a bit, but my few attempts at doing that with shrubs (like Cistus, some maples) have failed, the winter cold is just too much for them.  In a few (very few) cases, I've had some luck with southwestern shrubbies, one of my favorites is Philadelphus microphyllus from SWNS a number of years ago, and perfectly hardy.

Tim, did these all (except the Erysimum) germinate at room temperature?

And except for the mentioned chipping, was there any pretreatment?

Any tips for sowing/germinating Geranium fremontii? I came across a mention of scarification and a 24 hour soak, which I have not heard of for other Geraniums??

It seemed like unusual advice to me too, Cohan, but I was surprised to see that scarification is recommended in the Alplains catalogue for G. viscosissimum (after which just the usual 70-degree-ish conditions are recommended, if I'm remembering the meaning of the codes correctly).  

I had to look that species up.  This article suggests that "Geranium fremontii" may be more correctly known as G. caespitosum, and that  fremontii may be just a variety, which USDA Plants seems to agree with.
http://www.swcoloradowildflowers.com/Pink%20Enlarged%20Photo%20Pages/ger...
http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=GECAF

The 24 hour soak recommendation is still odd, though.  Dr. Deno's work (First Supplement to the Second Edition of Seed Germination Theory and Practice) doesn't support it.  He reports that pre-soaking prior to germinating in moist conditions either did not give significantly faster germination, or actually risked seed death by inhibiting its access to oxygen and causing asphyxiation.  I know it's something some people like to do, however.

I have sometimes tried chipping geranium seed and think it can be effective, especially if you only have a few seed of something really special. I've not soaked them but normally just sit seed pots in water overnight which is likely to imbibe the seed pretty well. (When I was working in science I was chastised for watering all the freshly sown seed of Sweet Peas being used in genetic studies of their flowering - I was looking after the greenhouse over the weekend! - I have been very wary of soaking legume seed for too long ever since!).

Rick - all these seed except the Lomatium and Euphorbia were started off with bottom heat in the greenhouse - I suppose equivalent to 'room temperatures' and then removed to the lightest spot in the greenhouse once germinated. So they will now experience quite warm days and cool nights and I am not too keen that they grow too quickly! (probably should have sown some of them rather later in the spring but there is always too much to do then).

With respect to Geranium viscosissimum, I have had excellent success using a couple methods. Scarifying the seeds between folds of 100-grit sandpaper and exposing  them to conventional (warm, moist, and well-illuminated) growing conditions resulted in 80% germination within two weeks. I achieved comparable germination by enclosing the seeds in a foil packet and submerging them in boiling water for 10 seconds, exposing them to 8 weeks of cold-moist stratification, than transferring them to a warm environment. Germination began during the cold treatment and continued during the warm phase. I'd guess that the cold treatment was unnecessary for this species, but it did no damage. Failure to scarify, or to expose the seeds to a longer period of boiling water, resulted in no germination. Alternatively, direct seeding (also known as neglecting to deadhead) resulted in many seedlings in the garden.

Now why would 'direct seeding' result in a high germination rate when there was neither scarification nor the boiling water treatment? I know nature is always 'right,' but what is it about plants just dropping seeds that makes the germination rates so high when if we do the same thing, we get nothing?

McDonough wrote:

I've always wanted to try growing Desert Willow (Chilopsis linearis); but I don't think it could survive our New England climate.  It is rated zone 7-10...

Not to imply that the conditions are the same, but it's interesting that Bob Nold grows it in Denver, far from the Sonoran and Chihuahuan desert washes that I tend to associate it with from fondly-remembered trips long ago (re. High and Dry: Gardening with Cold-hardy Dryland Plants).  I hope this mention of his name will get his spider senses tingling, so he can pop in and tell us about it in person!

Tim, you have a great start to the season.  I've started earlier than usual this year, but only have 4 pots of sprouts so far - eager beavers that need nothing more than scarification or just moisture to trigger them:  Astragalus coccineus (so easy to germinate, so hard to grow!!), Oxytropis lagopus, Acantholimon saxifragiforme.  Salvia pachyphylla also germinated in a few days, which kind of surprises me.

Peter wrote:

Now why would 'direct seeding' result in a high germination rate when there was neither scarification nor the boiling water treatment?

I assume that the hard seed coat prevents too-early germination (read: autumn) in G. viscosissimum.

Lori wrote:

I've always wanted to try growing Desert Willow (Chilopsis linearis); but I don't think it could survive our New England climate.  It is rated zone 7-10...
Not to imply that the conditions are the same, but it's interesting that Bob Nold grows it in Denver, far from the Sonoran and Chihuahuan desert washes that I tend to associate it with from fondly-remembered trips long ago (re. High and Dry: Gardening with Cold-hardy Dryland Plants).

I regret that I had no difficulty in killing Chilopsis linearis a few years ago. But that record-setting cold snap--4 days of lows near -10 C in early October, which constituted the first frost of the year--took out quite a few marginally hardy plants (including all of our cactus).

I also don't see why direct garden seeding results in germination without scarification ( I could see if it was just a matter of much larger numbers of seed and low germination percentages).. I suppose the sown seeds that were not scarified and did not germinate were just given cold stratification without freezing? So then maybe outdoor treatment over winter would work without scarfication? I have to see how many seeds I have, whether or not there are enough to experiment....
Lori, I did also gather from googling that fremontii is considered by some to be a sub-species of caespitosum.. Ironically, the seed for this North American came to me from Philippe in France...lol

cohan wrote:

Lori, I did also gather from googling that fremontii is considered by some to be a sub-species of caespitosum.. Ironically, the seed for this North American came to me from Philippe in France...lol

Just make sure you don't end up with Geranium robertianum after that world-wide trek ;)

Welcome, Michael!  I just realized that these are your first postings here.  It sounds from your Chilopsis linearis account that you are an adventuresome gardener!  Hope to find out more about what you are growing in Montana! 

Peter wrote:

Now why would 'direct seeding' result in a high germination rate when there was neither scarification nor the boiling water treatment?

Remember too, that we really don't know how old germinating seeds are that were naturally dispersed.  Given enough time in the natural environment, the breakdown of the seed coat an subsequent germination might not be so vexing after all.

McDonough wrote:

cohan wrote:

Lori, I did also gather from googling that fremontii is considered by some to be a sub-species of caespitosum.. Ironically, the seed for this North American came to me from Philippe in France...lol

Just make sure you don't end up with Geranium robertianum after that world-wide trek ;)

I'm hoping Philippe would know better since seed comes from the botanic garden..lol-- though mistakes can happen anywhere! In fact any Geranium is okay if its pink, or even white, or any colour other than that neon blue-purple of himalayense which we have many many square meters of....  :-X

I wanted to add that a friend in Nebraska successfully grew Chilopsis linearis a for a couple of years, from AZ seed (I think it was just seed gathered around metro Phoenix by another friend)- if I recall the sequence of events, he had it planted in ground, and mulched heavily the first winter; if died back to the mulch, but grew several feet or more next season and flowered; second winter he was not well enough to mulch and the plant died.. I forget what his lows were, but I could ask if anyone would like to know..

Peter wrote:

Now why would 'direct seeding' result in a high germination rate when there was neither scarification nor the boiling water treatment? I know nature is always 'right,' but what is it about plants just dropping seeds that makes the germination rates so high when if we do the same thing, we get nothing?

It is the strategy of the plant! When seeds are ripe or almost so before late fall it can be beneficial for the species that some seed sprout immediately if it is moist enough. A little later the seeds have gone into a dormancy which is hard to break and not all germinate the next season either but need more than one season to break dormancy. This is often the case with seed from plants where the seasons can be a little unpredictable and the plant build up a kind of seedbank in the soil.

Many of the easy ones are sprouting now. 
I started some very old seeds of Ipomoea leptophylla, and in two days, after strenuous filing of the very hard seeds, the sprouts are practically heaving the soil out of the pot!
Smelowskia calycina is an eager sprouter; the first germination was after 2 days, and lots are up after 4 days.
It's the same with Arenaria pseudoacantholimon, Silene nigrescens and Gastrolychnis apetala!

Lori - I am trying Ipomaea leptophylla and Silene nigrescens too, both germinating well. I assume you sow under artificial light?
For me both of these are etiolating considerably (although other seedlings are not) and I think I need to give them much higher light intensities, or possibly prolonged daylength?

Yes, I start most seeds indoors under fluorescent lights - each shelf of the plant stand has two double-light ballasts.  I'll have to check the wattage of the bulbs (can't remember).  Some are stratified in the cold room then brought out to the plant stand for germination, or after they germinate in the cold room. Alpines tend to grow a little looser than they should in my setup, but may tighten up after they are planted outdoors, so I don't see this as a huge problem, usually, though more intense light would certainly always be an improvement.  I think the permanent growing conditions may be more important overall to the plants ending up with the desired small, tight forms that we expect or hope for... ??  (See: http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=317.0 )  We did use very high intensity metal halide lighting at one time (for wintering-over water lilies and tropicals, mainly) but it was pretty unpleasant to be around - I imagine there have probably been improvements to these sorts of set ups now.  Starting them outside here doesn't give any particular advantage (in my opinion) in terms of getting seedlings to a good size prior to planting out, which I like to do as soon as possible. (I don't usually have the patience to take care of seedling pots for extended periods of time.)

NB.  Edited to add details.  This isn't meant to be taken as a recommendation to anyone - it's just a description of how I've been doing things, and needless to say, there is lots of room for improvement to it!!  :o

Lori, thanks for the welcome.  I've grown around 1000 species in the garden here, not to say that all or even most of them are still with me. I'm particularly fond of species from the U.S. Southwest, particularly penstemons. Given the tendency for this part of Montana to have rain and -20 to -30 C nights each winter, many of these plants are grown, unintentionally, as annuals. Or were grown; I subscribe to the notion that after killing a species three times, one can declare victory and move on to others. Thus Chilopsis linearis has two more chances. Lauren Springer profiled a reputedly hardier cultivar in her revised edition of The Undaunted Garden, so I know my next victim.

I started my one-hundred-ninety-third seed dish of the winter last night. These all represent species that prefer, require, or at least tolerate cold stratification. The warm germinators, 75 or so additional species, will get started in late February. My intent is to have most things germinating by 1 March so I can move them to a cold (and still occasionally freezing) greenhouse. But there are always surprises (or my unwillingness to accept their germination patterns despite repeated observation). Lewisia rediviva, Erysimum asperum, and Leptodactylon watsonii, for example, always seem to begin germinating during cold stratification, usually early January after an early December start, and I have to figure out what to do with the germinants before they rot. Starting these outdoors would be a lot easier, but I would miss the entertainment of expending large amounts of energy on configuring some contraption involving artificial lights and a propagation box to keep them growing during the depths of winter.

And it's not like I have room for 250+ species--that may be why so many are no longer here...

Off to a roaring start this year.  Last summer included Narcissus asturiensis collected from a friend's house.  That is already showing a few grassy leaves emerging from the seedling pot.  The Cyclamen are succulent and the Erythronium have swollen from a 24 hour soak.  I hope to at LEAST see leaves this year. 

Cold chill needed for the Campanulas, Silphium, Liatris, and Prunus.  (Anyone growing P. prostrata?  In the Seed Ex this year, it looked curious, if not lovely for the rock garden.)

The Lilium superbum are in vermiculite at 20C until I see a bit of something happening.  Oy... and then for the 5 or 6 years until flowering.  Rick, I think that scaling is the way to go!

The darn red squirrel came into the house (!) and ate all the Platycodon from last year.  I guess ate is not quite accurate - rather, made to disappear, as I don't know what he did with them afterward.  There was NOTHING!  Including the nothing of the 8 Chamaecyparis obtusa 'Nana' (the really nice, true one) grown from cutting last winter.  Vanished... into thin air, like he carefully removed them from their quarters, tossed them into his backpack, and off he went.  So much for my protected cold room...

Many more seeds to go. 

Michael
Interlaken, NY Zone 6a (officially now...)

Sound like a great start to your growing season, too, Michael... other than what the squirrel made off with.  ;D

I grow Prunus prostrata (or at least what was sold as Prunus aff. prostrata) though not particularly well.  It's been in a trough since I got it in 2008 where it has been very slow growing. If I get up the nerve, I may try to move it to a tufa bed and see if it will take on a prostrate form.
http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=372.msg6962#msg6962

Anyone else out there growing it?

Lori wrote:

I grow Prunus prostrata (or at least what was sold as Prunus aff. prostrata) though not particularly well.  It's been in a trough since I got it in 2008 where it has been very slow growing. If I get up the nerve, I may try to move it to a tufa bed and see if it will take on a prostrate form.
http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=372.msg6962#msg6962

Anyone else out there growing it?

No, but now you have made me aware of it ;) You say yours is from seed or did you buy a small plant?

Hoy wrote:

Lori wrote:

I grow Prunus prostrata (or at least what was sold as Prunus aff. prostrata) though not particularly well.  It's been in a trough since I got it in 2008 where it has been very slow growing. If I get up the nerve, I may try to move it to a tufa bed and see if it will take on a prostrate form.
http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=372.msg6962#msg6962

Anyone else out there growing it?

No, but now you have made me aware of it ;)

Lori wrote:

Hoy wrote:

No, but now you have made me aware of it ;)

Déjà vu, Trond:
http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=372.msg7027#msg7027
No, it's not from seed; I bought it from either Wrightman's or Beaver Creek.

Lori, I knew it! My memory is as long as my tail :-[

But what kind of hieroglyphs have you added here? Déjà vu, Trond:  ??

Déjà vu is just the French phrase for the feeling that something has been seen before.  :)

A few seedlings:
Gastrolychnis apetala (syn. Silene uralensis ssp. apetala); germination started in 2 days after sowing at room temp, several seedlings after 4 days):

Campanula topaliana; germination started the day after sowing  :o, lots of seedlings after 4 days:

Salvia pachyphylla; germination in 7 days at room temp, though only 2 seedlings:

Arenaria pseudoacantholimon (germinated in 6 days from sowing, room temp conditions):

I'm sure we have all, from time to time, puzzled over the identity of a mystery seedling!  I think it would be useful to post some photos of seedlings as they progress to more-recognizable stages... a modest start towards building up a bit of a reference database, and carrying on from some efforts in last year's seed season.  Any thoughts on this?  

Lori wrote:

Déjà vu is just the French phrase for the feeling that something has been seen before.  :)

I know that ;) I'm talking about the strange signs jà between the j and the à! and these: following my name!!
They're like squares with a two zeros and a number in (the numbers are 17, 11, 17, 05, 12 and 05). Thought they were some ascii code. Don't yousee them?

Hoy wrote:

Lori wrote:

Déjà vu is just the French phrase for the feeling that something has been seen before.  :)

I know that ;) I'm talking about the strange signs jà between the j and the à! and these: following my name!!
They're like squares with a two zeros and a number in (the numbers are 17, 11, 17, 05, 12 and 05). Thought they were some ascii code. Don't yousee them?

No, I don't.  All I see is the semi-colon right after your name, followed on the next line by the link I posted.   ??? ???

Edit:  I was experimenting in the post, prior to sending it, trying to remember what keystrokes were used for acute and grave accents, and did type out a string of symbols, but I deleted it all prior to sending... that's what it sounds like you are seeing, but I can't imagine why you might be seeing it after I deleted it, and why I can't see it now?  One of the mysteries of computers, perhaps?  I have a Mac - do you happen to have a PC?  I do notice weirdness sometimes when linking from Macs to PCs at work... ?

Bah, it's all black magic!  ;D

Edit:  Trond, I went back and retyped the "deja vu" bit... I hope that has corrected it and removed the weird symbols from your view!?

Edit:  Errr, okay, I guess it's something to do with the keystrokes for the accents then, not the other stuff I deleted.

You are not going crazy, Trond.  I see them, too.

There must have been something that Lori left behind in her message, or something the computer did itself as a result, that our computers don't recognize.  Consequently, another symbol was put in its place.  I'm sure they must mean something in computer lingo, because I see them exactly as you describe.

And I am NOT seeing them! How strange!

Lori wrote:

s... a modest start towards building up a bit of a reference database, and carrying on from some efforts in last year's seed season.  Any thoughts on this?  

Could we make a separate Seed and Seedling photo gallery in our Wiki?
--- That would be awesomely cool!  8)

AmyO wrote:

And I am NOT seeing them! How strange!

Lori's message showed properly for me, with the french accents in place, and no extra symbols; I do know the sort of symbols Trond is talking about though-- I have seen them sometimes when viewing pages or words in other languages and clearly my operating system or browser or something is not recognising them.. some conflict between different systems I guess, that some of us are seeing proper French and some not...

BTW, my keyboard can be set to various formats, to make those accents, but then they displace other regular characters- one would have to learn a whole other keyboard (the other characters are not marked on the keys!).. when I need to make 'foreign' characters, I use this:
http://www.tedmontgomery.com/tutorial/ALTchrc.html

Yes, I use similar guides... for Macs, though.

Lori wrote:

No, I don't.  All I see is the semi-colon right after your name, followed on the next line by the link I posted.   ??? ???

Edit:  I was experimenting in the post, prior to sending it, trying to remember what keystrokes were used for acute and grave accents, and did type out a string of symbols, but I deleted it all prior to sending... that's what it sounds like you are seeing, but I can't imagine why you might be seeing it after I deleted it, and why I can't see it now?  One of the mysteries of computers, perhaps?  I have a Mac - do you happen to have a PC?  I do notice weirdness sometimes when linking from Macs to PCs at work... ?

Bah, it's all black magic!  ;D

Edit:  Trond, I went back and retyped the "deja vu" bit... I hope that has corrected it and removed the weird symbols from your view!?

Edit:  Errr, okay, I guess it's something to do with the keystrokes for the accents then, not the other stuff I deleted.

Lori, I have a Mac :-) and your retyping moved the weird symbols in front of the sentence  ;D ;D
Don't bother- I was just curious and wondered if you had used some symbols I didn't have ;)

Good germination information in this pdf for those wanting to germinate eriogonums native to Utah:
--- E. alatum
--- E. bicolor
--- E. brevicaule
--- E. corymbosum
--- E. heracleoides
--- E. jamesii
--- E. ovalifolium
--- E. racemosum
--- E. shokleyi
--- E. umbellatum

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCoQ...

RickR wrote:

Could we make a separate Seed and Seedling photo gallery in our Wiki?
--- That would be awesomely cool!  8)

That sounds like a great idea!
Until that, or something like it comes about, here are some new ones and some updates on others:

There is a definite familial similarity between seedlings of the locally native Saussurea nuda var. densa and Saussurea nupuripoensis... (both of these have been easy to germinate... if there is a challenge, it will be in growing them!)

Here is Saussurea nuda var. densa; the seeds germinated in 9 days in room temperature conditions:

Here is Saussurea nupuripoensis which germinated in 5-6 days at room temperature; the seeds were from Vojtech Holubec, and collected in Zhdanko, Sakhalin, Russia at 400m elevation from a scree habitat  (description:  "caespitose plant, 20cm high, lanceolate tomentose leaves, lilac flowers in terminal cymes, 2011 seed").

Arenaria pseudoacantholimon; seeds also from Vojtech Holubec, ex. Palandoken, Turkey at 2300m elevation, from limestone scree (description:  "compact cushions like Acantholimon, 5-10cm wide, spiny leaves, 8 mm long, white flowers on thin 10-15 cm stems"; seeds collected in 2011):

Acantholimon saxifragiforme is taking on an acantholimon-like look as the true leaves emerge:

What very timely references to starting Eriogonum, Rick.   I will need to peruse those too!

RickR wrote:

Good germination information in this pdf for those wanting to germinate eriogonums native to Utah:

Thanks again, Rick! I have about 20 pck of eriogonums :rolleyes:

That germination information is very interesting Rick.  I was particularly struck by Table 3 that indicates to me that chilling is required for at least 2 months and maybe 4 or 5 months for high altitude species, based on their experiments with Eriogonum.

I use two strategies for seed starting.  Those that need cold stratification are left outside with a cover to experience alternating temperatures.  Those seeds that need warm temperatures I start in a greenhouse.  If I get seed from the exchange at the end of January the challenge is that, in our climate, I don't have 2 months of suitable cold stratification weather remaining before spring.  I have observed that I get better germination if I sow outside seeds in November so that there is a full winter period for cold stratification. So some seeds that I receive in late January I now save for planting the following November.

I have outside seed trays of Lewisia rediviva and Douglasia nivalis sown last November that germinated in January.

Here are some of my results.  I have about 200 pots on the go.  Many are being stratified and some were just sown and stratified today so they will not see heat until April.  Having said that, here's what is germinated

Direct Sown Jan 27/12, germinated Feb.7/12 (some germinated earlier than this but I essentially make notes once a week, they are growing at 10 C nights, 15 C days)

Alyssum borzeanum
Alyssum pulvinare
Achillea clavinae
Erigeron foliosus
Erigeron simplex
Hymenoxys subintegra
Heliosperma pusillum
Heterotheca pumila
Scorzonera austriaca
Townsendia hookeri
T. incana
T. rothrockii
T. scapigera
T. florifera
T. mensana

Stratified Dec. 21/11, brought into heat Feb. 2/12, germinated Feb. 7/12

Primula cortusoides
Penstemon pachyphyllus
P. fendleri
Draba parnassica
Incarvillea mairei
Onosma cinerea
Onosma helvatica

Stratified Nov. 10/11, brought into heat Jan. 9/12, germinated Jan. 23/12

Androsace obtusifolia
Allium stellatum
Campanula celsii
Symphandra armena
Delphinium smithianum
Saxifraga cherleroides v. rebunshirensis

I'll post an update in a week!

Todd, those sown Nov/Dec last year, are the seed fresh or stored from another year?
I never get seeds that early in the season?!

David wrote:

If I get seed from the exchange at the end of January the challenge is that, in our climate, I don't have 2 months of suitable cold stratification weather remaining before spring.  I have observed that I get better germination if I sow outside seeds in November so that there is a full winter period for cold stratification. So some seeds that I receive in late January I now save for planting the following November.

I do that more and more now, too, waiting to plant seeds next season.  Maybe partly because I don't get it all done as early as I should.  It seems to be preferred by a lot of fritillaria people, and certainly could be better for seed that might do better when aged, like penstemon and some cactus.

Yes Trond, they were last years seeds.  Some of the seed exchanges I use don't send seed until April which is too late for strat.  And then I also get excess NARGS seed and they don't arrive until April-May, so I have plenty of seed that sits around until the following fall.

Latest germination:

Stratified Nov. 10, heat Feb 2, germination Feb. 9

Draba norvegica (native)
Armeria maritima ssp. siberica (native)

Stratified Dec 2, heat Feb. 2, germination Feb 9

Draba brunifolia
Arabis parishii

A few recent ones:
Physochlainia orientalis (the leftmost seedling is an imposter); Rheum delavayi; Campanula topaliana; Smelowskia calycina:
     
Some info:
Physochlainia orientalis- seeds from Gardens North; germinated at 6 days at room temp; an interesting, early-blooming hardy Solanaceae; this photo is from the Reader Rock Garden in Calgary:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/14980862@N03/2494136461/
http://www.rareplants.de/shop/product.asp?P_ID=9059
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=120&taxon_id=242442760

Rheum delavayi - seeds collected by Holubec in China, Beima Shan, Yunnan, 4800m elevation, slate scree, 2008.
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=242343374

Campanula topaliana - seeds from NARGS in 2010; whereas many Campanula seem to require stratification, this one sprouts readily at room temp; in the first attempt in 2010, germination took 8 days; this year, from the same seeds, germination started the day after planting; I'm growing some more of these in case they do turn out to be monocarpic, and to disperse at the CRAGS plant sale, if there is any interest in it:
http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=24.msg13116#msg13116

Smelowskia calycina - a native alpine Brassicaceae:
  http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=934.msg13941#msg13941
_________________________________________________________________________

Plantago urvillei; Microula tibetica; Scutellaria megalaspis:
   

Plantago urvillei - seeds from Holubec, ex. Olkhon, Siberia, grassland, collected 2011.
http://www.fotomontaro.com/flora/plantagina/plantago_urvillei01.shtml

Microula tibetica - seeds from Holubec, collected "China, Shengli Daban, Borohorshan, 3500m, open erosion gullies, compact caespitose cushion, 2-3 cm high, scabrous lanceolate lvs in ground rosettes minor blue sessile flws, 2011"; Boraginaceae.
http://holubec.wbs.cz/3Borohoro-Shan_-Xinjiang.html
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200019128

Scutellaria megalaspis - seeds from Pavelka, 1500m, Hekinham, Turkey; Bigger cushions, branched stems, 15-25 cm, violet-blue flws, dry stoney slopes, 2010 seed.
_________________________________________________________________________
Thymus aff. haussknechtii; Ebenus pisidica; Cynoglossum lanceolatum:
   

Thymus aff. haussknechtii - seeds from Pavelka, "1600m, Kop Dag, Turkey; dense dwarf subshrub, 10-20cm, strongly bluish-glaucous lvs, big white to pink flws, very good, 2008 seed"; seeds germinated in 5 days at room temp.

Ebenus pisidica - seeds from Pavelka, "1600m, Dirmil Pass, Turkey; cushions of silky-silver lvs, 10-15cm, red-purple flws in globose inflorescence, stoney slopes, 2009 seed"; seeds germinated in 2 days after being scarified by rubbing against a file.
http://www.treknature.com/gallery/photo232044.htm

Cynoglossum lanceolatum - seeds from Pavelka, "3300m, Zhongdian Range, Yunnan, China; short lived perennial, silky hairy leaves, erect scapes, 10-50cm, many sky blue flws, stoney slopes, 2009 seed".
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200018962

Edited to add details.

Also Syncalathium soulei or more correctly(?), Melanoseris souliei and Cancrinia tianshanica:
 

Syncalathium soulei - seeds from Holubec, China, Hong Shan, Yunnan.
http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=963.msg14996#msg14996
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=250097510

Cancrinia tianshanica - seeds from Holubec, "China, Shengli Daban,Borhoroshan, 3600m, alpine sandy deposits, caespitose pl, 3-7cm high, hairy pinnate lvs, 2-3 cm long, ball-like capituli, 15mm wide, yellow flws, 2011".
http://holubec.wbs.cz/3Borohoro-Shan_-Xinjiang.html

These also germinated in a few days at room temperature.

Edited to add details.

This Ebenus creticus was sown a few weeks ago and germinated yesterday - I hadn't been hopeful as mice had gotten into the packet and I didn't know if anything viable (edible!) was left to sow! Seeing Lori's Ebenus psidica made me think I should post this pic!
cheers
fermi

Fun seeing all these little babies pop up. 

Lori, I don't even know the genus on some that you show.  I looked up the genus Syncalathium in Flora of China, there's a note at the bottom about S. souliei being ascribed to the genus Melanoseris (as M. souliei)
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=132065

This link discusses related genera (I know none of them) and some photos of very interesting looking plants:
http://english.kib.cas.cn/rh/rp/201104/t20110406_67336.html

Syncalathium souliei on the Holubec site, 3rd photo from the bottom:
http://holubec.wbs.cz/6Tibet_-China.html
...terrific looking form and large clear photo on the Database of Chinese Plants site:
http://www.plant.csdb.cn/details?guid=photo:cfh@8f4d0a7e-e01a-4ce0-a69a-c995db946e2b
http://www.plant.csdb.cn/details?guid=photo:cfh@fb9c051b-f560-44bc-ab8c-e2d41b621f47

Fermi wrote:

This Ebenus creticus was sown a few weeks ago and germinated yesterday - I hadn't been hopeful as mice had gotten into the packet and I didn't know if anything viable (edible!) was left to sow! Seeing Lori's Ebenus psidica made me think I should post this pic!
cheers
fermi

Fermi, I've always been curious about your seed sowing technique where it looks like the gravel mulch is "domed" and filled right to the brim of the pots; is this done for drainage purposes?  From what I've seen, you get good germination.

Like Mark said, I don't recognize half the seeds you are growing Lori....I assume these are mostly Halda or Holubec seed? (In which case, most would not be suitabe for Newfoundland as we are too wet).

BTW, I would have thought many of those genera needed a strat period..yet you didn't.  How do you know which to do and which not to do? (I follow the ORGS site but many of the more unusual seeds are not listed there)

Thanks for the info about Syncalathium/Melanoseris, Mark - I'll add that to my records.

The very unfamiliar things I'm growing are mainly from this year's (and past) orders from Mojmir Pavelka and Vojtech Holubec, collected in Turkey, China, Macedonia and Greece, Kazakhstan, and Russia.  (I'll go back into that posting and add some more detail about the species, provenance, etc..)

So far as deciding whether they'd need stratification or not, well, I make some wild guesses!  
I made the assumption that Brassicaceae and Asteraceae may be less inclined to need stratification than some others.   What does everyone think about that?
If they don't germinate after, say 3-4 weeks, I put them in the cold room for some chilling, and pull them out again in 6 weeks or so for another try.

I scarify all Fabaceae, and then try them at room temp, which usually works.  (I think that's pretty standard... ?)

Other than that, I rely a lot on an article by Alan Bradshaw (Alplains) about seed starting that was published in the CRAGS newsletter, which gives some useful guidelines for which genera generally need stratification and which don't... and I refer to Dr. Deno's texts, although many of the more exotic genera aren't covered there.

Lori, Syncalathium souliei looks very exiting! Hope you manage to grow it.

Firstly I set my seedpots in a temperate room and then bring them to a colder place if they don't sprout in  two - three weeks. Some montane species like Cremanthodium sprouts immediately in 10-15C other prefere higher temperature.

I agree that Syncalathium souliei looks like a keeper!

Lori, are you growing Inula rhizocephala?  I have seeds from two sources and neither germinated...maybe THEY need stratification?

Looking back at my notes, I grew Inula rhizocephala in 2009 at room temperature and had germination... enough to result in several plants to set out.  I didn't note how long it took to germinate.  So, perhaps it might have done better with stratification, I don't know.

Good show Lori and Fermi :)
I looked at the Syncalathium when looking over Holubec's offerings- I'm more and more enamored of many Asteraceae, but some of these Himalayan oddities are especially exciting...

I am germinating in a cool greenhouse....only 13 C on a cloudy day (most days!) but to 20 C on a sunny.  Maybe they (Inula) just need a longer time.

Re. eFlora of China's treatment of Syncalathium souliei as Melanoseris souliei:
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=132065

The Plant List doesn't seem to agree; it shows Syncalathium souliei as a recognized species, but not Melanoseris souliei... but who knows how well Chinese alpines are integrated into this list?
http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/gcc-34700
http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/search?q=Melanoseris+souliei

A few more...
Geranium magniflorum - from the NARGS seedex, ex. Joubert's Pass, E. Cape, S. Africa; germination in 7 days at room temp; scarifying certainly does seem to promote rapid germination!

Inula cf. kitamurana - seeds from Holubec, collected "Russia, Zhdanko, Sakhalin, 180m elevation, rocky grassland, perennial, 40cm high, large yellow flws, 2011", germination in 6 days at room temp.

True leaves now on Salvia pachyphylla:

McDonough wrote:

Fermi, I've always been curious about your seed sowing technique where it looks like the gravel mulch is "domed" and filled right to the brim of the pots; is this done for drainage purposes?  From what I've seen, you get good germination.

Hi Mark,
not sure if I picked this up from the Brits or someone here ;D - in UK literature it is referred to having the topping "proud" of the rim! Watering has to be from below or by a very, very gentle trickle. The potting mix is not tamped down so that the mix remains well-aerated, it gradually settles down over time.
The idea is that the seedling emerges above the rim of the pot because when the soil level settles down below the rim then it leaves a hollow which doesn't allow good air-flow and this can lead to 'damping off' of the seedlings. At least that's what I've heard and the sinking of the soil level is a problem if the seedlings aren't divided quickly.
I hope this makes sense :-\
cheers
fermi

Update germination: keep in mind the day temps are generally 12-15 C

Direct sown Feb. 3, germinated Feb. 13 (10 days to germinate)

Aster likiangensis
Dianthus brevicaulis

Stratified Dec. 21/11, brought into heat Feb. 2/12, germinated Feb. 13/12 (11 days to germinate)

Draba rigida
Scutellaria alpina
Penstemon richardsonii
Penstemon ovatus

Stratified Nov. 10/11, brought into heat Jan. 29, germinated Feb. 13 (15 days to germinate)

Digitalis viridiflora
Digitalis ferruginea ssp. schischkinii
Primula sinoplantaginea
Patrinia heterophylla
Draba oligosperma
Draba rosularis
Gentiana loderi
Phlomis cashmeriana
Phlomis tuberosa
Globularia bisnagarica
Globularia trichosantha
Globularia punctata
Epilodium dodonaei
Saponaria pumila
Potentila nivea (native)
Dryas integrifolia (native)
Minuartia rubella (native)

Direct sown Feb. 1, germinated Feb. 15 (15 days to germinate)

Meconopsis prattii (keeping fingers crossed on this one!)

Stratified Dec. 21/11, brought into heat Feb. 2/12, germinated Feb. 15/12 (13 days to germinate)

Draba densiflora
Potentilla pyrenaica

Stratified Nov. 10/11, brought into heat Jan. 29, germinated Feb. 13 (17 days to germinate)

Digitalis obscura
Allium lusitanicum
Primua zambalensis
Lomelosia graminifolia

I can only just about keep up! There is some great information in this thread. I have quite a few of the seeds Lori mentions from the Czech collectors yet to sow. Really interested by the Ebenus species; I grew E. cretica from Archibald seed for several years in the garden - lovely foliage and rather extraordinary heads of flowers, all in all like a cross between a clover and a lupin. I have seed of quite a few Dalea species from Alplains, and find these legumes completely fascinating (for one thing there is no end of them!). Now the days are getting longer and brighter, conditions are improving for sowing in the greenhouse, so hope to have some things to show in a while.

I only have Ebenus cappadocica in the garden so far, from seed in 2010, so I hope it will bloom this year.  I hope you will show us your Dalea, Tim!

Here are some updates on Ebenus pisidica, Microula tibetica, Geranium magniflorum, Inula aff. kitamurana:
       

I had to look up Lomelosia graminifolia, Todd - nice plant!
http://www.florealpes.com/fiche_lomelosiagraminifoli.php
http://luirig.altervista.org/photos-search/index.php?title=Lomelosia+gra...

The Plant List doesn't like that name much though, and only considers Lomelosia divaricata to be a valid representative of the genus (which is in the familiy Caprifoliacaea):
http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/search?q=lomelosia
http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/kew-2339549

I thought perhaps it was Scabiosa graminifolia but the foliage character may be somewhat different with the presence of some stem leaves... ?  
http://www.plantsystematics.org/imgs/dws/r/Dipsacaceae_Scabiosa_graminif...
BTW, The Plant List doesn't like the name Scabiosa graminifolia much either!
http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/kew-2593392

I wonder how or if the name will be resolved.

More germination results...
Ipomea leptophylla seedlings have already been moved into separate pots, and the seed leaves are starting to die off:

Update on Saussurea nupuripoensis; Arenaria pseudoacantholimon is looking like stiff little half-size Acantholimon seedlings;
 

Anaphalis cf. monocephala - seeds from Holubec (China, Serkym La, Tibet 4400m, granite scree, prostrate plant, grey tomentose triangular leaves, 3-5 capitules on 12 cm long stems, 2010 seed); germinated in 12 days at room temp.

Dryas integrifolia (wild-collected locally) germinated in 5 days at room temp (and the same for Dryas drummondii):

Sideritis clandestina - seeds from Pavelka (1600 m, Taygetos Mts. Greece;tufted strongly white lanate plant,yellow flws in whorls, 20-40cm, stoney slopes, 2009 seed); germinated in 7 days at room temp.

http://www.greekmountainflora.info/Parnon/slides/Sideritis%20clandestina...

Agastache pringlei - seeds from Alplains, collected in Mexico; germinated in 6 days at room temp:

You have some very special and exciting seedlings going, Lori!
I haven't yet turned up the heat where I have the pots as I have been away for a week and are at home just for a day!
Only the low temperature germinating species have sprouted so far.

Thanks, Trond.  I figure the only way I'll get to see some of these things is by trying to grow them!

I've had to resow Thymus aff. haussknechtii after a set-back.  The seedlings died off after I removed the pot from the covered tray.  I think the roots had not yet extended down through the fine crushed granite top dressing that I'm using this year, and so did not find enough moisture.  I tipped out the crushed rock and sowed the remainder of the seed in the pot, where the roots will be able to penetrate down into a finer-grained (but still very permeable) mix.

Update -  true leaves on Cancrinia tianshanica:

Onobrychis argyrea - I grew this 2 years ago and was quite surprised that it didn't winter over, so I'm trying it again; the seeds germinated in 6 days after scarification. It did bloom in the first year from seed, which was nice, though the flowers were not so intricately-patterned as on some Onobrychis.

 
Here is sainfoin, Onobrychis viciifolia, an escape from cultivation, that has beautiful flowers:

Silene bolanthoides - germinated in 8 days at room temp; seeds from Pavelka (1700m, Kaz Dag, Turkey; dwarf dense cushions, short linear leaves, flowrs solitary or 2-4, stemless or very short scape, white to pale pink, petals deeply bilobed, 1.5cm across; rare, one of the best of Silene kinds; stoney places, 2008 seeds); a delightful plant - I'm growing more for backup, and possibly to disperse at the CRAGS plant sale.
 

This is supposed to be Leyospora pamirica - a Brassicaceae, from Holubec (China, Kunlun, 4200m, cold alpine scree, small caespitose pl, 3-5cm high, fleshy dark green lanceolate lvs, solitary large rose flws, 15mm wide, thin peduncles, 2011), but I suspect it was either an errant seed or was mislabelled, comparing to the photo. Should be interesting, nonetheless!  It germinated in 4 days at room temp.
   
http://holubec.wbs.cz/1Kunlun-Shan-Xinjiang.html

Marrubium lutescens - seeds from Pavelka (2000m, Sultan Dag, Turkey; taller plant to 40cm, yellowish lanate lvs., white flws, stoney slopes, 2010 seed); germinated in 7 days at room temp.

Mathiola anchifolium - seeds from Pavelka (600m, Hezanli Dag, Turkey; low strongly white tomentose, linear leaves, 10-20cm, brown flws aging yellowish, 2006 seed); germinated in 7 days at room temp.

That Cancrinia tianshanica is very interesting, Lori...
Did you notice it has three :o different leaf types?

Rick, the third type is a transition stage - not uncommon - between the mature ones and the cotyledons.

Hoy wrote:

Rick, the third type is a transition stage - not uncommon - between the mature ones and the cotyledons.

Well, that's the first time I have seen a transitional stage that is not somewhere midway between the initial and final stage.  Oh wait, I am forgetting that the first leaf is actually a cotyledon, so it doesn't count.  Still, I don't think I have ever noticed the first true leaves to be so drastically different from the rest.
Okay, I'm an idiot, and I see now... I had thought that the leaf my big arrow was pointing to was a stem of ten leaves! 

Nevermind :-[

Lori all looking fantastic! So many unusual treasures! My seed sowing adventures are a bit more tame. Mostly Primulas, Arisaemas and Cyclamen. But exciting all the same when they start sprouting! :D

My germinations have slowed considerably.  I have the feeling the rest may NOT germinate!  I have a bunch of more to come out of strat in two weeks.  here are the latest to germinate:

Direct sown Feb. 2, germinated Feb. 20 (18 days)

Inula rhizocephala (one germinated!  Halleluja!)
Arnica longifolia

Stratified Dec. 21/11, brought into heat Feb. 2/12, germinated Feb. 20/12 (18 days to germinate)

Allium cernuum 'Album'
Dodecatheon pulchellum

Stratified Nov. 10/11, brought into heat Jan. 29, germinated Feb. 20 (23 days to germinate)

Saxifraga cespitosa (native)
Papaver alpinum
Androsace sempervivoides

Based on how fast Lori's seedlings are growing, I may need to provide mine with more heat.

Campanula scoparia - germ in 13 days at room temp

Erysimum leptophyllum - germ in 12 days at room temp

Trachelium rumeliacum - germ in 8 days at room temp

Silene caryophylloides ssp. echium - germ in 9 days at room temp

Tibetia tongolensis - seed scarified, germ in 6 days at room temp

Aethionema saxatilis ssp. oreophila - germ in 11 days at room temp

Patrinia villosa - germ in 6 days at room temp

Anthemis cretica ssp. leucantemoides - germ in 6 days at room temp

Marrubium lutescens - germ in 7 days at room temp

Amorpha canescens - seed scarified, germ in 6 days at room temp

Marvellous Lori :o
Do you have anything that don't germinate?

Hoy wrote:

Do you have anything that don't germinate?

Yes, always! The easy ones are fun but I always end up with plenty of empty pots at the end of the season, when I lose interest.  (Yeah, I know I should be keeping these over the winter or for even more than one year, but I have limited patience!  I keep some.)  I've started keeping slightly better records in recent years (though I always end up with some gaps!) - I got something like 65% germination on a species basis in 2010, and only 45% in 2011!  I tried lots of South American species in 2011 that I was spectacularly unsuccessful with.

Lori....I'm curious....I notice that some of your seed-pots are covered with sand and some with grit. Is there a reason for this or is it just random?

There's definitely randomness there, Amy, but I am using sand or grit as a top-dressing in most pots this year.  I thought it might reduce algae and moss growth on the top of the soil, which might be helpful for things that take a long time to germinate, and I think it is helping with that.  I thought the grit, in particular, would be useful to elevate very tiny seedlings above the soil surface, so that they can't be overgrown by moss and also so that they aren't momentarily inundated when I water the pots.

OK, that's answers that. I use the grit as a top dressing on all my pots and it seems to help with the moss/algae problem. Any bits of perlite not covered turns green almost immediatly and fools me into thinking something is sprouting! >:(

I'm having a small problem with some seedlings just sprouting then withering and disappearing. It doesn't look like the typical damping-off symptoms, but it could be that as I never sterilize my containers. There is also a pot of Campanula zangezura and a pot of Anemone rupicola that are looking very chlorotic, but they have been fertilized with no change. Other seedlings are looking nice and green growing right alongside them. In addition there is a pot of Aconitum sp. that has developed brown seed leaves....I don't know if that is something to worry about, but hoped someone here might have some advice for me on these problems. :rolleyes:

Hoy wrote:

Marvellous Lori :o
Do you have anything that don't germinate?

I was thinking the same thing!!!

My germination results usually hover around the half mark, and last season was a particularly bad year for me, too.  A couple other seed growers in my Chapter also tally in at 50%, in general.  These are first season results.  Seeds that sprout in the following seasons are a bonus. ;D

I think your seedlings look terrific, Amy!  I would imagine the ones you feel are a bit chlorotic will probably come around.  I wonder if the browning of the Aconitum seed leaves isn't just the effect of the light source somehow (e.g. very close to the lights, which is probably overall a good thing, nonetheless)?  They look otherwise pretty darn healthy.

Rick, it's great to hear that your stats are in the 50%-ish range too - very encouraging! 

My results also usually are about 50%. Last year I had a much better result, however, I lost a lot of seedlings in the summer. It is a problem though not being at home long periods in summer.

Amy, my thoughts were the same as Lori's. The reddening of the leaves are almost certain a result of too intense light level - did they sprout there or have you moved the seedlings?
I have found that chlorotic leaves can appear due to too much water and/or too cold temperature. It can also be caused by lack of some important nutrient of course but usually the plants improve when repotted later on.

Thanks for the reassurances Trond & Lori!  :D
The Aconitum did sprout there under the lights and perhaps they a little too close, so I'll raise a notch or two.
The temp. is in the 60*f - 65*f area for the most part.

My record keeping is really bad to non-existant so I can't chime in on percentages of germination. But if I can remember clearly enough I would guess at 40-50% as well.

Myself, I wouldn't bother to take any particular measures concerning the seed leaves - they look healthy, just reddened (maybe it's normal in that species, who knows?)... and they're going to die off later anyway.  So long as the true leaves are alright - and they look fine - I'd keep the light as close to the seedlings as possible.  Light seems to be the most important factor to starting seeds indoors, and if there is a problem, it often comes from inadequate light, as opposed to too-intense light.

Yes, Lori is right. I wouldn't bother either. Although the light could have been too intense if the seedling had germinated in darkness and suddenly brought too close, the plant soon adapt and will take all the light you can provide with a lightbulb or tube.

Rheum delavayi - germ in couple weeks(? - one of the gaps in my records!) at room temp; seeds from Holubec ("China, Beima Shan, Yunnan, 4800m, slate scree, dwarf rhubarb, 10-30cm high, entire undulate leaves, red petioles, racemes of reddish flws, red winged seeds, 2008")

Saussurea nuda update:

Saussurea nepalensis - germ in 5 days at room temp; NARGS seedex

Oxytropis viscida(?) - seeds scarified, germ in 3 days at room temp; guess I didn't scarify them too effectively though, given only 2 seedlings emerging!

Lactuca intricata - germ in 4 days at room temp; seeds from Pavelka ("2000m, Boz Dag, Turkey; low suffruticose subshrub, 10-25 cm, lots of solitary blue flws, dry stoney slopes, 2009 seed")

Antirrhinum molle - germ in 10 days at room temp; seeds from SRGC seedex

Acantholimon caryophyllaceum ssp. caryophyllaceum - germ in 4 days at room temp; NARGS seedex

Achillea gypsicola - germ in 5 days at room temp; seeds from Pavelka ("1200m, Cankiri, Turkey; compact cushions, linear grey hairy lvs, 3-5 big yel flws on scapes 10-20cm, 2009 seed")

Cynoglossum amabile - germ in 4 days at room temp; SRGC seedex

Centaurea deflexa - germ in 14 days at room temp; seeds from Pavelka ("1900 m Tashkent, Turkey; tufts or small cushions, linear white tomentose lvs, stemless yellow flws, very good, loamy slopes, 2010 seed")

Lori, you are not stratifying a bunch of genera that I thought had to be...for example, I strat all my Saussurea, Patrinia and Campanula.  I have to seriously revisit my germination practices.

I have about 45 pots that have not sprouted after 4 weeks in the heat...they were all previously startified for 8 weeks.  Guess I'll stick them outside now to freeze-thaw until April and maybe they'll sprout then (unless the seed are not viable).

My seed from Goteborg's BG and Graz BG just arrived.

I usually stratify Campanula... although I've gone the other route occasionally and found the odd species that doesn't seem to need stratification at all, e.g. Campanula topaliana.  With Saussurea, I think it was the absence of much info that caused me to start them in warm conditions, although not always successfully by any means.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if you get much better germination than I do, overall, with the stratification.  In some cases, the one or two seeds that germinate for me in warm conditions may just be the "oddballs" among the population in the seed packet...  At any rate, stratification is certainly not harmful (which seems to be something people often wonder about).

Edit:  I have only got one seedling of Campanula scoparia, which may suggest that stratification would have been the way to go for it!  Time will tell if it really even is Campanula scoparia.

Updates and a few new ones:
Thlaspi bellidifolium - germinated in ~10 days at room temp

http://www.zrehacek-alpines.cz/os/obrT/Thlaspi_bellidifol.jpg

Mathiola anchonifolium:

http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4810.msg130562#msg130562

Aster asteroides - germ in 11 days at room temp

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=Aster+asteroides&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1916...

Helichrysum noeanum - germ in 10 days at room temp

Gentiana straminea - treated with GA-3 (I meant to leave these in the solution of a tiny bit of GA-3 in a few drops of water overnight but forgot and left them 3 nights); germinated in ~7 days at room temp.

http://www.gentians.be/index.php?page=plant_portraits&pic=282

Really wonderful to see all those seeds germinating - and to see someone else with Lactuca intricata! Who but an alpine grower would want to grow a shrubby lettuce. I have this germinating too and really look forward to seeing what it does.

My experiences are that only around 50% of seed generally germinates (although I get much better results with home collected seed). Peter Erskine in one of his articles in the AGS Bulletin quoted a similar figure, so it seems reasonable even when you try every which way to improve germination.

We are having superb warm sunny days here and a lot of seeds are beginning to come up. The amsonias quite surprise me - tomentosa - the seed is very large relative to other species I have grown, and Alplains advice to sow warm has worked well (others I have always sown outside over winter). Eriogonum caespitosum and Saussurea I received late and put in the fridge after sowing for 4-5 weeks; they are coming up nicely now. Similarly Edraianthus pumilio, one of my all time favourites. The Dudleya was very old seed from Ron Ratko, and like Buddleya utahensis, tiny! These have germinated with bottom heat in the greenhouse but are growing on very slowly. Quite a bit more to come (and quite a bit more to sow!).

Such fun to see all these seedlings popping up.  Tim, your mention and photo of a "Buddleya utahensis" sent me googling, and some interesting things came up.  First, is the genus spelling, which a wikipedia entry asserts is commonly misspelled Buddleia, but it is actually Buddleja (as you have spelled it on your label). The reference goes on to say "Linnaeus posthumously honoured the Reverend Adam Buddle (1662–1715), a botanist and rector in Essex, England, at the suggestion of Dr William Houston. Houston sent the first species of buddleja known to science (B. americana) to England from the Caribbean about 15 years after Buddle's death".  I wonder how it got the "ja" ending to its name?

Regarding genus classification, it says "The genus Buddleja is now included in the figwort family, Scrophulariaceae; it had earlier been classified in either the Loganiaceae or in a family of its own, the Buddlejaceae."

Checking IPNI.org, there are only entries for Buddleja, none for Buddleya or Buddleia.  Checking The Plant List, both Buddleja and Buddleia are listed ???, stating that the Genus Buddleja is in the family Scrophulariaceae, and that the Genus Buddleia is in the family Loganiaceae, yet these are supposed to be one and the same!  What a muddle of a buddle ;D

I never gave it a thought that there are western American "Butterfly Bushes" or Buddleja species, now I'm enlightened. :)

Regarding Buddleja utahensis, here's a link showing what it looks like, a subtle dryland shrub; the flowering stems are floccose with tiny yellow flowers peaking out, intriguing.  On the link below, check out Buddleja marrubifolia, that one looks very ornamental with bright orange-red flowers and as expected, nice Marrubium-like foliage.
http://www.worldbotanical.com/buddleja.htm
http://www.worldbotanical.com/images/Buddleja74.jpg
...Buddleja marrubifolia:
http://www.worldbotanical.com/images/Buddleja_marrubifolia-731.jpg

Mark - I'm not sure where I got the 'y' from, especially since I labelled the plant with a 'j'. I must have been halfway further on in the sentence! Very interesting to hear more of the background of the genus and family(s). I have always liked the genus, quite apart from its attraction to butterflies and other pollinators, and we have grown a number of more unusual species over the years, including crispa, a lovely thing that I first saw at Beth Chatto's, and colvilei, which has relatively enormous flowers. I hadn't come across some of these American species before, and there are several more in South America pictured on the Chileflora site. There is a book on the genus, published by Timber Press, which I have been meaning to get for some time so will have to check it out again.

Tim, maybe because in your sentence about Buddleja you first mention the genus Dudleya, practically a rhyming anagram for Buddleya/Buddleia/Buddleja ;)  But the revelation for me, when researching the name, is that it really is Buddleja, while all these years I used the common misspelling of Buddleia, but then again, The Plant List seems equally confused, not sure how such an authoritative resource can be sitting on the fence and presenting both Buddleia and Buddleja as valid, it is one or the other as far as I'm aware.  Regardless, all interesting stuff.  :D
http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/search?q=Buddleia
http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/search?q=Buddleja

Everything is looking great, Tim!  
What does your Lactuca intricata look like?  Here's mine, looking very lettuce-like indeed at this stage.  It's transformation into a subshrub should be interesting.

http://www.pavelkaalpines.cz/Photos/Turkey2009/lactucaintricataturkey.html

Aethionema saxatilis ssp. oreophila - seeds from Pavelka (collected:  2300m, Aroania Mts., Greece; small glaucous plant, 3-6cm, pale pink flws, limestone rocks); seeds germinated in 11 days at room temp.

Anthemis cretica ssp. leucanthemoides - seeds from Pavelka (collected: 1700m, Kaz Dag, Turkey; very dwarf plant woody at base, linear silvery-green lvs, solitary white flws, 3-8cm, stoney places, 2008 seed); germinated in 6 days at room temp.

Bukiniczia cabulica - germinated in 10 days at room temp.  I got seed from both the NARGS and SRGC seedexes and put both in the same pot; the SRGC seed looked like Acantholimon (and has not germinated yet - perhaps not fertile) while the NARGS seed appears to be the real McCoy; either way it seemed I would get something very interesting!

Ya know, Lori... that Lactuca is big enough to nibble.

It looks pretty tasty! ??? ;D

Hi Lori - yes that really does look lettuce-like! My seedlings are still very small. We have grown for many years a big herbaceous 'lettuce', Cicerbita plumieri (also sometimes labelled Lactuca). This is a very robust plant to 2.5m or more, with the typical violet-blue flowerheads. I've always liked it so I look forward to seeing what this species does. In the past I also grew Cichorium spinosum, and this is very attractive and neat, and would be nice to get again.

RickR wrote:

Ya know, Lori... that Lactuca is big enough to nibble.
It looks pretty tasty! ??? ;D

A pretty meagre salad though... those are only 2 5/8" pots.   :D

A few more including a couple that have been potted on:
Linum viscosum - seeds from Alplains; started germinating in the cold, after 1 month in the cold room:

Draba tomentosa - seeds from Pavelka (collected: 2500m Korab Mts, Macedonia; dense grey cushions, big wh flws on scapes 3-8cm, limestone rocks); germinated after ~20 days at room temp.

Androsace bisulca v. brahmaputrae - seeds from Holubec (collected: China, Gyamda, Tibet, 3700m, mountain grassland, unique plant, rounded cushions, 3-8cm wide, 1-2cm rosettes, large rose-red flws on 2-4cm long stems, 2010.  Also China Zhoka, Tibet, 3500m, rock terraces, 2010); started germinating in the cold, after 33 days in the cold room:

Anarthrophyllum desideratum - seeds from Holubec (collected:  Argentina, Col. Belgrano near Perito Moreno); scarified then germinated in 10 days at room temp;  so far, so good, though only one measly seedling... poor thing probably won't stand a chance in the real world outdoors!

Oh what dreams are made of if you could grow the Anarthrophyllum! I did try this once from John Watson's seed, but like a lot of South Americans the seedlings became very drawn and out of character (I think you need to put a UV lamp over it!). I am really attracted, like Anne Spiegel, by dwarf legumes, and the adesmias are another group that would be exciting to grow. There are also some excellent South American lupins and one we grew back in the 1990's was L. oreophilus, which I have seen again recently on the Chile Flora site. This grew well in the garden but like most lupins (well all) was relatively short lived. Unfortunately I only have slides from the dark ages of film!

I once germinated Anarthrophyllum desideratum, a single seedling that lasted about 1 month, huzzah.  Lori, I hope you have better success than I, one of the more amazing plants on this earth.

Globularia trichosantha - uniformly germinated in 9 days at room temperature.  This was my third try with this species, each from a different source.  The first two times (other years) they were winter sowed without any success.  They might have been bad seed, I suppose, but more likely rotted over the winter.  These first two batches were seed lightly pressed into the soil surface, then covered with #2 granite grit.  In the third try with the same soil mix, seed was sown on a bed of #1 granite grit, and covered with the #2 grit, and put directly into 68-70F temperature (not winter sown).
             

I received Eranthis hymenalis seed from Wim last year.  He sent me some in moist packing and some dry seed in May, so the dry seed couldn't have dried that long, I would think.  They were promptly planted 11 May 2011 in pots and left outside.  With the crazily warm temps here (a week of 70-79F days and 55-60F nights) both lots came up simultaneously 16 March 2012.  
             

Oxytropis nana - germinated at room temperature in 2 days after scarification and 2 hour soak.  It was quite amazing how quickly they absorbed water.  In the 2 hours it seemed like they doubled in size, but in reality they increased in size by about 50%.

I did a second trial at room temperature with an equal number of seed from the same batch (NARGS Seed Ex seed wild collected in Wyoming) unscarified and not soaked.  One seed emerged in 35 days, so far.
             

I am a bit puzzled by this one: it's supposed to be Oxytropis campestris.  Scarified, and germinated in 7 days at room temperature.  It looks like a monocot to me.  Oxytropis is a dicot.  Any ideas?
             

Rick, it is a dicot and a Fabaceae. The pea (cotyledons) often remains in the soil. But I can't tell if it is an Oxytropis ;)

Rick, I agree with Trond, it does look like a Fabaceae to me, almost Lathyrus-like, but some Oxytropes and Astragali have upright growth, such as O. campestris, so it might be right.  Here's a photo, its a lovely locoweed.
http://www.em.ca/garden/native/nat_oxytropis_campestris.html

We too have had a full week of record breaking warm weather 75 F - 83 F resulting in a sudden explosion of rapid plant growth and flowering, full bore flowering of Magnolias, cherries, daffodils, everything!  Seed flats that I leave out all winter are bursting with germination, flats of Jeffersonia dubia and diphylla coming up so thick that the soil and mulch top dressing lifts up like a lid.  First time ever getting good germination on Anemonopsis, very happy about that.  Epimedium seed coming up thickly too, both those that I've sown, and innumerable self-sown ones out in the garden.

But as expected with such mild winter weather overall, followed by a heat wave of sorts, cold is returning with a deep freeze predicted for tomorrow night, 19 F (-7 C), followed by several more nights of hard freezing.  I'm not sure how the seedlings will withstand a sudden drop to 19 F, so I'm not taking chances with my flats and brought them indoors for a few days until temperatures moderate, I don't want to risk the bonanza of Anemonopsis, Jeffersonia, and Epimedium seedlings.

Updates:

Thlaspi bellidifolium; Microula tibetica ssp. pratensis; Rheum delavayi; Acantholimon saxifragiforme; Fumana procumbens:

Smelowskia calycina; Trachelium rumeliancum; Achillea gypsicola; Ebenus pisidica; Cancrinia tianshanica:

More updates:

Marrubium lutescens; Anaphalis cf. monocephala (a couple of these are producing flower buds!); Leontopodium cf. pusilum;  Sideritis clandestina; Plantago urvillei:

Saussurea nupuripoensis; Tibetia tongolensis; Amorpha canescens; Leontopodium muscoideum; Achillea holosericea:
       

Some photos:
Achillea holosericea:
http://www.greekmountainflora.info/Timfristos/slides/Achillea%20holoseri...

Leontopodium pusilum:
http://botany.si.edu/tibet/photo_gallery.cfm?start=80

Tibetia tongolensis:
http://www.jansalpines.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=13924

Plantago urvillei:
http://www.flora.crimea.ua/podorognik/Plantago-urvillei.jpg

Lori, what do you give your speedy seedlings?
They're out of the diapers in no time :o

Well, nothing but fast-draining soil, really.  I've only given them a bit of fertilizer in the water once recently for the first time.  
We'll be getting ready to put them on the cart to start spending their days outdoors soon (wheeled into the garage at night)... I'm out of room inside here now, so planting more seedlings into individual pots will depend on creating more room this way!

I shouldn't keep so many seedlings of each kind I guess, but I hate to kill them, despite that I know I'll end up giving lots away (or perhaps I should admit to forcing them on people  ;) ) just to get rid of them... wish I could send you all some!  I do try to flog them at the local rock garden society spring plant sale, but it seems that most people are extremely unlikely to even consider trying an unfamiliar species.  (I'm the opposite, evidently!)

Lori...You do grow some obscure (well to me they are) species!  ??? Loads of which I have never heard of. But you are doing an amazing job of germinating and growing on!

Hoy wrote:

Lori, what do you give your speedy seedlings?
They're out of the diapers in no time :o

What a perfect description!  I would imagine that the good lighting helps a lot, too.  The flowering anaphalis is wonderful surprise!  Lori, how many hours a day are your lights on?

Every year in our Chapter newsletter, I always write in my plant sales article: "We encourage all contributors to clearly print plant names (botanical and common) and cultural information on the label.  Putting your own name on the tag is an added bonus.  We all like to know who grew our newly purchased plants (and who we might ask for additional plant information)."  Although I always have people asking me for more information about my donate plants, few actual take my advice of put their own names on their own donated plants.  I am at a loss of how to get people to do this.  Any ideas?

Another thing that works very well to sell unfamiliar plants, is write an article about them in a prior Chapter newsletter.  I think the best one I ever wrote was on Phyteuma (with pics, of course).  I still have people asking me, years later, if I will be bringing any.  The good thing is that someone is now also growing them from seed, and donating to the sale.  But she won't put her name on them!

Hoy wrote:

Lori, what do you give your speedy seedlings?
They're out of the diapers in no time :o

Yes, that certainly is a fine turn of phrase!  ;D  Rick, the lights are on for 16 1/2 hours per day, set on a timer.  There are 2 or 3 4-foot long fluorescent shop lights suspended on chains over each shelf; each shop light contains 2 bulbs of 40 watts each.

Thank you, Amy.  The seeds are really doing it all themselves - I've just been providing the grunt work of planting, watering, and potting on.  I've been mostly showing the easy ones, needless to say - I will bomb out totally with many species that are not inclined to germinate so readily, or that may need different conditions than what I can offer (e.g. cool growing conditions, perhaps?)

Rick, how about publishing a list in the local club report of who sold what, for later reference?
The president of the local rock gardening club has proposed that members who flog plants at the spring sale prepare slide shows for the upcoming May meeting, to show people what the plant will look like, and to talk about their experience at growing it.  I will be doing this, for some of the species I grew a couple of years ago, that I am now growing more of with the hopes of dispersing at the sale.  (Of course, that doesn't help with the totally unfamiliar things I'm growing and have no prior experience with... and yet hope to disperse!   Actually, I often wonder why I am doing any of this... just want to get rid of excess plants, I guess.)

I have a dilemma- I have a number of seeds (received in winter, and I wasn`t organised to get them sown soon enough to give warm indoors and then cold outside) considered short lived and requiring warm/cold/warm germination... what should I do with them? I do not have a fridge I can put them in, so my only options for sowing are indoors now, warm or cool, followed by summer outside etc, or put them outside now (where there will be frost till the end of May, presumably.. and days warm to chilly depending on weather and siting)..
I don't remember everything there is to sow in this category, Aconitum and Dicentra, maybe Corydalis.. maybe others...

I grew Corydalis wilsonii from seed in 2010, was planning on a warm/cold/warm treatment, and they came up in the first warm conditioning.  Plants don't survive zone 4 winters, but apparently the seed does better.  Just a couple days ago I spied a seedling emerging from warm/cold/warm (summer/winter in garage/spring).  The pot probably only reached a 10F(-12C) low.  Also, remember our zone 4 spring is a month ahead this year.

RickR wrote:

Every year in our Chapter newsletter, I always write in my plant sales article: "We encourage all contributors to clearly print plant names (botanical and common) and cultural information on the label.  Putting your own name on the tag is an added bonus.  We all like to know who grew our newly purchased plants (and who we might ask for additional plant information)."  Although I always have people asking me for more information about my donate plants, few actual take my advice of put their own names on their own donated plants.  I am at a loss of how to get people to do this.  Any ideas?

Rick,
at our AGS Vic Group we have an annual plant swap known as "The Bunfight" because the original ones used to be a bit of a shemozzle. We ask for donors to put their initials on the back of the label so that we can identify the plants that way. It's less time consuming than writing their whole name and we now get quite a high compliance. I always like to acknowledge people from whom I've received something which has gone on to be a star in the garden.
cheers
fermi

Updates and recent germinations:

Androsace bisulca v. brahmaputrae - seeds from Holubec (collected: China, Gyamda, Tibet, 3700m, mountain grassland, unique plant, rounded cushions, 3-8cm wide, 1-2cm rosettes, large rose-red flws on 2-4cm long stems, 2010.  Also China Zhoka, Tibet, 3500m, rock terraces, 2010); started germinating in the cold, after 33 days in the cold room; now at 5 weeks from germ.

Campanula ptarmicifolia - seeds from Pavelka (collected: 2500m, Sipikor Dag, Turkey; dense tufts or compact cushions; narrow spathulate leaves, erect stems 10-25cm, blue flowers in spike, 2008 seed); germ. in the cold after 5 weeks:

Helichrysum noeanum - seeds from Pavelka (collected: 1600m, Sivas, Turkey; dense cushions woody at base, strongly white lanate lvs, yellowflws, 10-15cm, gypsum hills, 2010 seed); germ. in 10 days at room temp; now at 5 weeks from germ:

Dryas integrifolia - locally wild-collected; germ in 5 days at room temp:

Gentiana straminea - treated with GA-3 (I meant to leave these in the solution of a tiny bit of GA-3 in a few drops of water overnight but forgot and left them 3 nights); germinated in ~7 days at room temp.; now at 6 weeks after germ.

Penstemon pumilus - seeds from Alplains (collected: Idaho); germ started in the cold after 4 weeks:

Dianthus scardicus - seeds from Pavelka (collected: 2200m, Sar Planina, Macedonia; dwarf cushions, glacuous lvs, almost stemless solitary pink flws, cold stoney slopes, rare and good); germ. in 1 month at room temp:

cohan wrote:

I have a dilemma- I have a number of seeds (received in winter, and I wasn`t organised to get them sown soon enough to give warm indoors and then cold outside) considered short lived and requiring warm/cold/warm germination... what should I do with them? I do not have a fridge I can put them in, so my only options for sowing are indoors now, warm or cool, followed by summer outside etc, or put them outside now (where there will be frost till the end of May, presumably.. and days warm to chilly depending on weather and siting)..
I don't remember everything there is to sow in this category, Aconitum and Dicentra, maybe Corydalis.. maybe others...

Cohan, I usually end up with a bunch of these too, I'm always disgusted with myself that this happens but it does! Anyway, I normally end up putting them outside, and if it's something I really want badly, I may try a few seeds indoors in the warm as well.
I don't have a dedicated fridge I can use either, just a few spots way in the back of always in use fridge for maybe 3 - 4 small pots that I have to watch like a hawk that no one tips them over! So, outside they go.

Lori, I keep wondering where you are going to put all those new treasures ;)  Seeing all of these plants at the early germination stage, with first leaves, is most educational, a resource unto itself.

Not knowing much about Anemonopsis macrophylla, I've been frustrated by the fact I never get any seedlings in the garden, even when I help things along by scratching in the seed out in the garden around the mother plant, which has proved so effective for many other plants I do this with.  Last summer when the seed was ready, I harvested some of it and sowed the seed in a flat, top dressed with decomposed pink bark mulch, keep in shade and just moist for summer and fall, and left outside all winter, and I'm so pleased to finally have a fine crop of seedlings coming up.  Now, only 4-5 years until full sized :o

Googling this plant, I'm surprised by the wikipedia link that says "As with many other members of the Ranunculaceae, seedlings of Anemonopsis form only cotyledons in their first season; the first true leaves form the year after germination".  I wasn't aware of that.  Can anyone comment, is it true that's all I'll get this year is pairs of cotyledons and no true leaves?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anemonopsis

Two years ago I received a lots of fresh Trillium seed in mid-late summer, over 20 different varieties.  I expanded some of my beds outdoors with the purpose of sowing all the seed outside directly in the garden.  I was hoping, since the seed was fresh, that I could get accelerated seed germination the first year (hypogeal germination, followed by true cotyledon germination) all in one season, which can happen.  The following spring I got only a few seedlings, out of an estimated 2000-2500 seeds sown. 

This year is the 2nd spring for the sown trillium seed, thankfully many are now showing good germination.  The following photo (sorry, not very good quality) shows a view where I marked the location for seed sown of Trillium pusillum v. alabamicum.  There is one bigger leaf, it appeared the first spring.  But looking closely, there are about 20 fresh seedlings appearing.  Will probably need to wait another 4-5 years before flowering.

McDonough wrote:

Now, only 4-5 years until full sized :o

Googling this plant, I'm surprised by the wikipedia link that says "As with many other members of the Ranunculaceae, seedlings of Anemonopsis form only cotyledons in their first season; the first true leaves form the year after germination".  I wasn't aware of that.  Can anyone comment, is it true that's all I'll get this year is pairs of cotyledons and no true leaves?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anemonopsis

Mark...I sowed seed from my plants 2 years ago, and I can say for sure that now in this second year is when I am seeing true leaves on them. Now if the red squirrels & chipmunck would leave the pots alone I'll be all set with many plants in a few years time!

Thanks Amy, then 2 years it is to see true leaves on Anemonopsis, they sure are slow!

May I recommend buying some "hardware cloth", typically available in hardware stores, sold by the foot or yard on rolls, as much as wanted.  Then with standard wire snips (also at the hardware store), I cut pieces of the wire mesh to cover my pots, turned down at the sides to hold the mesh in place.  When seeds germinate, the mesh can be easily bent to give some height to the covering to give seedlings some room and not have leaves pop up through the mesh and expand the leaves, making for a tricky situation removing the mesh eventually and no ripping the leaves off. It works well, even if the mesh is formed into a loose arch over the pots, so far squirrels and chipmunks leave such protected pots alone.

I no longer get great angst over incessant diggings of these varmints in my pots since I started using wire protection.  The wire covers can of course be re-used over and over.

McDonough wrote:

Thanks Amy, then 2 years it is to see true leaves on Anemonopsis, they sure are slow!

May I recommend buying some "hardware cloth", typically available in hardware stores, sold by the foot or yard on rolls, as much as wanted.  Then with standard wire snips (also at the hardware store), I cut pieces of the wire mesh to cover my pots, turned down at the sides to hold the mesh in place.  When seeds germinate, the mesh can be easily bent to give some height to the covering to give seedlings some room and not have leaves pop up through the mesh and expand the leaves, making for a tricky situation removing the mesh eventually and no ripping the leaves off. It works well, even if the mesh is formed into a loose arch over the pots, so far squirrels and chipmunks leave such protected pots alone.

I no longer get great angst over incessant diggings of these varmints in my pots since I started using wire protection.  The wire covers can of course be re-used over and over.

Mark, do you have a picture of your "hardware cloth"? Don't know whether something like that exists here.

A few more things germinating - here Eriogonum ovalifolium, Lomatium californicum and three Asclepias, hallii, latifolia and asperula (from Alplains), which I am particularly excited by if I can grow them on to flowering. These were all sown and kept in the fridge for 6 weeks before bringing out into the greenhouse. All this propagating is beginning to bear fruit as we fill the greenhouses with young plants on the nursery. And finally a lovely surprise in the garden, a mass of Trillium rivale seedlings next to the parent plants. For many years I only had one clone and never got seed set, but have planted several plants from different sources together. However, I didn't expect such largesse!

Trond, hardware cloth is just a welded wire mesh - see photos:
http://www.google.ca/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=hardware+clth&oe=UTF-...

I'm considering making covers, as you suggest, Mark, for the troughs out front.  The jackrabbits continued their munching this year (despite less snow cover and presumably more choice of things to eat) and nipped off my Prunus prostrata and a little juniper through the winter.

McDonough wrote:

Lori, I keep wondering where you are going to put all those new treasures ;) 

Ha, at the rate that I kill stuff off??  :o  Just (mostly) kidding.  ;D ;D 
Well, I did go overboard on seeding but think I have enough room in the existing and new beds for a couple of representatives of each new species... just not room for 5 or 6 of them.    ;) 

McDonough wrote:

May I recommend buying some "hardware cloth", typically available in hardware stores, sold by the foot or yard on rolls, as much as wanted.  Then with standard wire snips (also at the hardware store), I cut pieces of the wire mesh to cover my pots, turned down at the sides to hold the mesh in place.  When seeds germinate, the mesh can be easily bent to give some height to the covering to give seedlings some room and not have leaves pop up through the mesh and expand the leaves, making for a tricky situation removing the mesh eventually and no ripping the leaves off. It works well, even if the mesh is formed into a loose arch over the pots, so far squirrels and chipmunks leave such protected pots alone.

I no longer get great angst over incessant diggings of these varmints in my pots since I started using wire protection.  The wire covers can of course be re-used over and over.

I have made a few flat covers with hardware cloth already and use them, I just have so many pots & trays to cover! I need to find a less expensive way to protect my 'babies'.  :-[

Have you considered using chickenwire in the same way, Amy?  It costs less than hardware cloth.

Lori wrote:

Trond, hardware cloth is just a welded wire mesh - see photos:
http://www.google.ca/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=hardware+clth&oe=UTF-...

Thanks Lori. I supposed it was something like that. I use chickenwire against hares and European elk(!)

Here are a couple views of peat flats protected with small rectangles of "hardware cloth" or "welded wire fabric" or "welded wire mesh", all terms for basically the same thing.  In the photo on the right, the mesh has been loosened to allow room for the developing Jeffersonia seedlings.

They look pretty tough, Mark, not like the chicken wire I use! But my main problem is not warmblooded animals either. . . .  However I could need it where I plant some of my bulbs. They are often dug up and eaten by some animal.

Trond, I was just reading how good ducks are at eating slugs!

Chickens, too...

I think the wild birds here must eat a lot of them- they are around, if you dig under rocks and boards etc, but I don't see much sign of them on plants, so far...

cohan wrote:

Trond, I was just reading how good ducks are at eating slugs!

RickR wrote:

Chickens, too...

I have read it too - but as we are away from home we don't even have a cat. When the girls were kids(!) they had rabbits and we (I) had enough of travelling with animals >:( Can't just leave them alone . . . .

You don't have to leave the ducks alone, they have the slugs to keep them company ;) I know what you mean though, we have our cat, who moved here from the neighbours' and adopted us, and he would be hard to leave alone since he lives partly in and partly out  :-\ Plants are easier..

cohan wrote:

You don't have to leave the ducks alone, they have the slugs to keep them company ;) I know what you mean though, we have our cat, who moved here from the neighbours' and adopted us, and he would be hard to leave alone since he lives partly in and partly out   :-\ Plants are easier..

Well, plants are easier but they can't move themselves! I left a lot of pots outside when we left and see from the weather forecast that we have experienced freezing temps the last three nights! And that after 5 weeks without :-X I am very anxious for some of the plants. Many rhodos had started flowering too and some don't take freezing either :(

Excellent seed-starting results, Tim and Mark!

Hoy wrote:

When the girls were kids(!) they had rabbits and we (I) had enough of travelling with animals >:( Can't just leave them alone . . . .

What?  You don't find it convenient to travel with a crate of chickens or ducks, Trond?!?  But surely that would be take-on luggage?  ;D ;D 
Kind of reminds me of a book I've loved since I read it as a kid - Gerald Durrell's My Family and Other Animals, in which he describes his family's pre-WWII emigration when he was a child to the island of Corfu and subsequent adventures... all with his various pets and eccentric family members and accoutrements in tow! 

More babies:
Gentiana tibetica - from Gardens North; germinated in 3 weeks at room temp, as per Kristl's directions:

Potentilla uniflora(?) - locally wild-collected; germ in the cold after ~1 month of stratifying; this is one of the magnificent alpine potentillas that I've struggled to ID conclusively - with a couple of these "in captivity", I hope to be able to finally satisfy myself on the ID!

Erysimum leptophyllum - update; seeds from Pavelka (collected:  1900m, Dedegol Dag, Turkey; dense tufts, linear silky lvs, yellow flws, 3-5cm, alpine meadows; 2010 seed); germ at room temp in 12 days.

Dryas drummondii - locally wild-collected; germ in 4 days at room temp.

Alyssum sp. - seed from Pavelka (collected:  1500m Tahtali Dag, Turkey; very dwarf silver cushions, suffruticose at base, yellow flws 1-3cm, limestone rocky hills, 2010 seed); germ at room temp in 7 days.

Acantholimon caryophyllaceum ssp. caryophyllaceum - NARGS seedex; germ in 5 days at room temp.

Primula denticulata - I used to have a lot of these but no more!; Gardens North; germ at room temp in 15 days.

Astragalus loanus - NARGS seedex; as described in Stephanie Ferguson's article in RGQ Vol. 69 No. 4; germ in 9 days at room temp after scarifying.
 

Achillea umbellata - seeds from Pavelka (collected: 2100m Aroania Mts. Greece; strongly silvery-wh tomentose cushions, white flws on scapes 5-15cm, limestone rocks); room temp

Hoy wrote:

cohan wrote:

You don't have to leave the ducks alone, they have the slugs to keep them company ;) I know what you mean though, we have our cat, who moved here from the neighbours' and adopted us, and he would be hard to leave alone since he lives partly in and partly out   :-\ Plants are easier..

Well, plants are easier but they can't move themselves! I left a lot of pots outside when we left and see from the weather forecast that we have experienced freezing temps the last three nights! And that after 5 weeks without :-X I am very anxious for some of the plants. Many rhodos had started flowering too and some don't take freezing either :(

I avoid that problem by basically not putting anything outside at any time of year that can't take freezing...lol

Good stuff, Lori!
I often think of those books in certain circumstances, especially in reference to their ship bathroom adventures...... 'Opa!'

cohan wrote:

I avoid that problem by basically not putting anything outside at any time of year that can't take freezing...lol

Well, then you get the water problem. Who will water all your pets when you are not there?

Lori wrote:

Hoy wrote:

When the girls were kids(!) they had rabbits and we (I) had enough of travelling with animals >:( Can't just leave them alone . . . .

What?  You don't find it convenient to travel with a crate of chickens or ducks, Trond?!?  But surely that would be take-on luggage?  ;D ;D 
Kind of reminds me of a book I've loved since I read it as a kid - Gerald Durrell's My Family and Other Animals, in which he describes his family's pre-WWII emigration when he was a child to the island of Corfu and subsequent adventures... all with his various pets and eccentric family members and accoutrements in tow! 

Maybe I could get paid by bringing them along? Could help with the flight in an emergency case . . . .

Maybe I should look for that book?!

. . . .and I'm still higly impressed by your jet-propulsed seedlings ;)

Hoy wrote:

cohan wrote:

I avoid that problem by basically not putting anything outside at any time of year that can't take freezing...lol

Well, then you get the water problem. Who will water all your pets when you are not there?

First of all, it's not a problem, since I can't afford to not be here  ;D Secondly, most of my plants are xerophytic and can take some dry spells, and most of those I have that need frequent water are South African bulbs, and dormant in summer..

I did some seedling transplanting today.

One year old Penstemon canescens:

Another example of the advantage of holding over pots for multiple years:
Penstemon euglaucus, last year's seedlings with a new crop of seeds sprouting from last year's sowing.  (I think most penstemon cotyledons are narrow, but this species is different.)

I sowed these seeds a few weeks ago and they're already up
Zephyranthes primulina x Z 'Grandjax' cross-pollinated on Feb 2 and seed sown on March 4!

Can't wait to see what they produce [or if the cross "took"!]
cheers
fermi

Fermi wrote:

I sowed these seeds a few weeks ago and they're already up
Zephyranthes primulina x Z 'Grandjax' cross-pollinated on Feb 2 and seed sown on March 4!
[attachthumb=1]

Can't wait to see what they produce [or if the cross "took"!]
cheers
fermi

That was very quick, only 4 weeks to ripen! Hereonly weeds ripen that fast. . . . . ;)

RickR wrote:

Penstemon euglaucus, last year's seedlings with a new crop of seeds sprouting from last year's sowing.  (I think most penstemon cotyledons are narrow, but this species is different.)

Looking back through my photos, the ones I've grown have shown some variability in that regard.  P. albidus, virgatus ssp. asa-gray, and pumilus have the narrowest cotyledons among the ones I have seedling photos of, while P. euglaucus, attenuatus, brandegei, grandiflorus have rounded cotyledons.  P. venustus is sort of intermediate.  With such a large genus (about 270 species), I suppose there's bound to be variation!   :)

Day 2 of hardening-off for 9 trays (~400 pots) of seedlings:

I used to put the trays out in the shade for 5 days for hardening-off, but we are instead using shade cloth on the plant stand this year.  The shade cloth excludes 60% of the light, and seems to be doing its job.  The stand can be rolled into the garage if frost is forecast.

Lori, you are one dedicated seedster!  Ingenious method of hardening your seedlings off for transition outdoors, and the whole affair portable too, impressive.  :)

It is Stuart, not me, who has the skills and ingenuity for the outdoor plant stand, and so many other things!

I like that reference to Gerald Durrell - I was hooked on his books too (I have 12 in addition to 'My Family and Other Animals'!). Not so easy to write about plants like this. I am keen to try more legumes in the garden (and to grow for the nursery) so have just spent several days chipping seed of oxytropis, astragalus, dalea, sophora and lupins. Some seed (especially the first three) are minute so this magnifying light that my wife uses for embroidery has come in really useful. Now I need to germinate and grow them on...

Tim, I use sandpaper with different grit size when I "chip" peas. I have one lying at the table and one mounted on a piece of wood. Then it is very easy to chip all at once and I always get very good germination.
However, I'm not sure whether they are easier to grow on . . . .  ;)

I am in no way an expert at this, but I use sandpaper to scarify seeds, too.  Except I don't use sandpaper with a block of wood.  Seeds are rolled between sandpaper on the table and a piece above with bit of downward pressure from my fingers only.  Logically, one would think that with a block the larger seeds would be be scarified while small seeds in the same batch would not; the small seeds would be protected from abrasion by the larger seeds that would prevent significant sandpaper contact. ???  Or perhaps the larger seed would be scarified too much?

------------------------------------------ sandpaper
    ***                        ***       
******        **      ******        **
******      ****    ******      ****        seeds
  ***          **          ***          **
----------------------------------------- sandpaper

I've thought a magnifying light like that would be very useful for sorting/cleaning seeds!

I was very pleased to notice that seeds of Sorbus sp cf wilsoniana sown last spring are now coming up abundantly!
I don't know much about what this will look like, especially being 'cf', but here's a description of the species:

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200011724

interesting that they say fruit orangish red, when many pics you can find online show pink berries (darn, I'd rather have had pink! maybe the cf will take care of that...).. and 5-10 m-- 5 would be preferred, but I'll have to wrap it in something to keep the moose from eating it- it took decades for our regular Sorbus ( I never remember which it is- americana or acuparia? the one with hairy buds, I think) to become more than a multi-stemmed shrub, what with annual pruning by them- it finally shot some trunks higher, and now they eat around lower levels...

I also have S reducta seedlings from last year planted out already and showing slight signs of life... that one might stay low enough to be below snow when the worst predations occur...

RickR wrote:

I am in no way an expert at this, but I use sandpaper to scarify seeds, too.  Except I don't use sandpaper with a block of wood.  Seeds are rolled between sandpaper on the table and a piece above with bit of downward pressure from my fingers only.  Logically, one would think that with a block the larger seeds would be be scarified while small seeds in the same batch would not; the small seeds would be protected from abrasion by the larger seeds that would prevent significant sandpaper contact. ???  Or perhaps the larger seed would be scarified too much?

------------------------------------------ sandpaper
    ***                        ***       
******        **       ******        **
******      ****     ******      ****        seeds
   ***           **          ***           **
----------------------------------------- sandpaper

Rick, I always scarify only one species at the time and the seeds tend to be rather similar in size. When I use the block the larger seeds tend to roll a little and the they get separated from the smaller and I can tilt the block if necessary. Anyway it works fine!

Cohan, if you want pink berries I can send you some S hupehensis seed!

Hoy wrote:

Cohan, if you want pink berries I can send you some S hupehensis seed!

Sure! Love those pink berries :) Though I don't know if its hardy, that hasn't stopped me before ;) (VanDusen seed collectors lists it as z 6-8, but I think most of these people don't know anyone in zone 3  ;D

Then, it occurred to me that its funny to look for shrubs for berry colour when most berries are ripe for about 5 minutes here before the birds get them....lol

I scarified seeds awhile back, I managed to scarify my fingertips as well!  I managed to hold most of the needs with a finger, and used an emery board.  For the smaller ones I put them in a baggie and "cornered the seeds" and then went at them with the emery.  Seemed to work, most have germinated.  I need to find a better way....

All photos taken 9 May 2012.
All were winter sowed the first few days of February:

Alyssum stribrnyiRomneya coulteri and Alyssum oxycarpum germinated in a warm spell of mid March.
       

Iris were soaked for one day before winter sowing.  Iris (setosa interior x hookeri ‘Labraska’) x self emerged 8 April.
             
Other Iris seed sprouting dates so far:
Iris hookeri x ensata F3 – 4 April
Iris setosa nana – 25 April
Iris tectorum ex ‘Burma Form’ – 25 April

Moltkia petraea  germinated 4 April, and Mysotis decumbens 20 March.
       

Petrocoptis pyrenaica emerged 20 March.
   

Phemeranthus sediformis emerged 31 March and Physaria alpina 19 March.
       

Pulsatilla halleri ssp. rhodopaea emerged 30 April.
             
Other pulsatilla emergence dates:
Pulsatilla halleri – 25 April
Pulsatilla grandis ‘Budapest’ – 28 April

All these were sowed at room temperature:

Acantholimon kotchyi, germinated in 8 days.
             
Other acantholimon emergence dates:
A. caryophyllaceum – 7 days
A. venustum – 7 days
It was interesting the these species first emerged as brown seedlings, and only turned green later.

Delosperma ashtonii germinated in 9 days.  But subsequent placement outside has yielded very little growth.  Delosperma are usually very fast growers, at least in warm weather…
             

Dianthus haematocalyx ssp. pindicola emerged in 5 days, and Dierama pendulum 22 days.  It's easy to see which dianthus seedlings emerged inside the house (with etiolated stems), and which emerged a little later after being place outhside.
       

Globularia trichosantha germinated in 15 days.  I've tried winter sowing G. trichosantha twice before with no luck.
             

Townsendia hookeri emerged in 11 days.
             
Other townsendia emergence dates:
Townsendia rothrockii – 7 days.
Townsendia scapigera – 7 days.

Lewisia rediviva began germinating (April 18) in the refrigerator at 34-38F(1-3C) in 49 days.  I wish I would have taken photos when they first emerged because cotyledons were not elongated at all; they were perhaps only twice as long as wide.
             

Phacelia campanularia also germinated in the refrigerator in 35 days.

Not a new seedling, this one is in its second season.  But I thought the difference in the earlier, simple leaves versus the newer compound leaf was interesting with this Aralia cachemirica.
               

Rick, you are competing with Lori in interesting species ;)

My flat of Anemonopsis, which germinated this spring, is showing some first true leaves, so far on at least 6 seedlings (can you find all 6?).  So, it seems I don't need to wait until the second year to see true leaves.

McDonough wrote:

My flat of Anemonopsis, which germinated this spring, is showing some first true leaves, so far on at least 6 seedlings (can you find all 6?).  So, it seems I don't need to wait until the second year to see true leaves.

Mark, I have 3 different batches of Anemonopsis seed germinating now and they all show true leaves now.

Germination over the last couple of weeks of some seeds sown around the beginning of May (I think- some of the tags were made earlier and then I didn't get the sowing done, didn't change them all!) and put out in the last patch of snow which soon became a bin of cold water! but still many cool days and near/frosty nights-- Some Violas (have to go out with a notepad to get the names...lol)- several Hieracium (I doubt they really needed the cool period, though the references I found were mixed, so I figured what the heck!) villosum, intybaceum and most recently aurantiacum (hope none of these will be weeds!) and the similar Hypochoeris maculatum; Prenanthes (purpurea, I think-have to look at the tag or find the packet..lol), And some things sown end of May and set outside for (occasionally!) warm days, though nights are still (always!) cool--Sempervivum arachnoideum, Polemonium boreale, probably some other things I'm forgetting now-- I have pics of most, but they don't look like much yet!

Have seen suggestions for germination of Paeonia and Roses on paper towels the latter initially cold and the former initially warm, on wet paper towels.  Some rose people suggested using a solution of 1.5% hydrogen peroxide.

Anyone "stratify" on paper towels?

Charles Swanson MA USA

RickR, your Alyssum stribrnyi seedlings look exactly like Romneya coulteri.

externmed wrote:

Have seen suggestions for germination of Paeonia and Roses on paper towels the latter initially cold and the former initially warm, on wet paper towels.  Some rose people suggested using a solution of 1.5% hydrogen peroxide.

Anyone "stratify" on paper towels?

Charles Swanson MA USA

I used to use Deno's method a lot - moistened paper towel inside of baggie - but have just gone to direct sowing in pots in the last few years.  It certainly saves space (Deno's method, that is).  It can be a little tricky to detach roots from the paper towel, so I'd just tear away as much as possible and plant it with the seedling.  I was not using it for peonies and roses though.

Gene wrote:

RickR, your Alyssum stribrnyi seedlings look exactly like Romneya coulteri.

Thanks, Gene.  Years ago, I had a plant of Alyssum stribrnyi and I didn't remember any jaggedy leaves like that either. I'll bet you are right. ;D

I just found a nice thick cluster of Hepatica transsilvanica seedlings under the mother plant. Any suggestions on whether to divide them this year or wait till next spring. They are growing in a very tight group, on top of each other in some circumstances. Only a few have their true leaves yet.

Mark wrote:

I just found a nice thick cluster of Hepatica transsilvanica seedlings under the mother plant. Any suggestions on whether to divide them this year or wait till next spring. They are growing in a very tight group, on top of each other in some circumstances. Only a few have their true leaves yet.

Mark, I would be tempted to wait for a not-too-hot day, then transplant them soon, separate out the seedlings into smaller clumps of 2-3 seedling each, then mulch and keep them well watered.  I don't have direct experience with Hepatica seedlings, but with other spring ephemerals, I separate and move the seedlings in early to mid summer, with good results.

Thanks Mark. I'll give it a try.

Full of promise ,not far from their first flowering ---- Seed sown June 2009 and potted on once, they don't appear to have suffered from not being separated into individual pots.

That being said i think I'll be potting on/ planting out a few Hepaticas soon as well. :)

Cheers Dave.

Toole wrote:

Full of promise ,not far from their first flowering ---- Seed sown June 2009 and potted on once, they don't appear to have suffered from not being separated into individual pots.

That being said i think I'll be potting on/ planting out a few Hepaticas soon as well. :)

Cheers Dave.

Looking good, Dave! I have some smaller than that (first year) and some maybe about the same size/age.. I sowed them in an old hanging basket planter (not hung though!) expecting to leave them several years till ready to go in the ground.. they are looking good- finally like real, though small, plants, this year.. Maybe I will plant them out this summer/fall, not sure yet... I rarely do anything with seedlings between sowing and planting out...

Thanks Cohan

I also sowed a number of wonderful different coloured japanese 'Heps' a year later in 2010 --a check yesterday and i think a small number of them are budding up .....Fingers crossed.

Cheers Dave.

Toole wrote:

Full of promise ,not far from their first flowering ---- Seed sown June 2009 and potted on once, they don't appear to have suffered from not being separated into individual pots.

That being said i think I'll be potting on/ planting out a few Hepaticas soon as well. :)

Cheers Dave.

Nice Dave! But don't you think they need to be separated soon?

Yip Trond --i'll let them flower first --see if there is any variation within a pot --repot any 'nice ones' and plant out a small number if i can find some room  ;D and probably give away the rest.

Cheers Dave.

Understandable with liverworts ;) When I grow rhododendrons from seed I have to give away a lot of thembefore I have seen the flowers :-\ Have to judge on foliage!

Toole wrote:

Full of promise ,not far from their first flowering ---- Seed sown June 2009 and potted on once, they don't appear to have suffered from not being separated into individual pots

Cheers Dave.

Here's a shot of one of the pots taken today.

Cheers Dave. 

A nice bunch and very reminding of spring!

It is two flowers that I associate with spring. The first I usually found in spring as a child was hestehov (coltsfoot Tussilago farfara) and the second which heralded the real spring was blåveis (liverwort Hepatica nobilis). I had some favorite places I visited regularly :)

Toole wrote:

Toole wrote:

Full of promise ,not far from their first flowering ---- Seed sown June 2009 and potted on once, they don't appear to have suffered from not being separated into individual pots

Cheers Dave.

Here's a shot of one of the pots taken today.

Cheers Dave. 

Great colours!

Having chipped a lot of legume seed earlier in the spring I decided I should get on and sow it. Summer temperatures are perfect, around 25-30°C and the seed germinated in a couple of days. So far so good. And then an influx of slugs out of nowhere discovered them, causing much cursing and a quick transfer to the greenhouse and scattering of slug pellets. Fortunately some are growing away OK and more have germinated, so at least most pots will produce a modicum of seedlings. Next year I will take more care.

The first photo shows Sophora arizonica with probably half of the seedlings chomped below the cotyledons. The second group were less effected: Lupinus excubitis, Sophora stenophylla and Robinia neomexicana. The third shows Oxytropis prenja, Ebenus pisidica and Hedysarum pestalozzae. Many of these are not likely to be too easy to grow even without slugs around but they are such fascinating plants, and like the final picture of Lupinus chamissonis often have very beautiful foliage even in the absence of any flowers.

Tim wrote:

Having chipped a lot of legume seed earlier in the spring I decided I should get on and sow it. Summer temperatures are perfect, around 25-30°C and the seed germinated in a couple of days. So far so good. And then an influx of slugs out of nowhere discovered them, causing much cursing . . . .

I know that feeling perfectly well! Unfortunately I have no slugfree place at all except inside the house :-\

My allotment of seeds from NZAGS arrived a week and a half ago.  I immediately planted a few indoors at room temp. covered with clear plastic and they germinated within a week - leading the pack is Townsendia hookeri, Gentiana verna, Ranunculus lyallii and Pterocephalus perennis.  Also coming along is some of Gene Miro's Ourissia coccinia.  In the past, when I have planted these in early spring, when most of my seeds come in, there is a problem with damp off and some just don't germinate at all.  Hope springs eternal.  Fran

Frances Howey
London, Ontario, Canada
Zone 5b

Good luck with all of those Fran :)

I collected a few berries of Arctous rubra, which is now one of my very favourite sub-shrubs, so I'd really like to get some going! Does anyone have any successful germination tips? Sounds like it could be a bit tough.. I will put them out over winter.. right now I have them in a bit of water with a touch of vinegar and kefir, in a highly unscientific effort to give them some simulation of passing through a digestive tract! then, barring any specific advice,  I'll sow them on top of gravel...

Cohan - never heard of Arctous rubra but, after looking at Google shots of it, I'm impressed - sort of related to Arctostaphylus, n'est pas?  Your handling of its propagation is rather heroic, in the medical sense, I'm thinking.  Hope you will keep us informed about your progress with this most interesting plant.  Fran

Frances Howey
London, Ontario, Canada
Zone 5b

Fran- yes, close to Arctostaphylos, in fact I think some authors may still retain it under Arctostaphylos.
I'll be sharing some recent photos of it when I get them all sorted, and I think I need to put together a set of it in several seasons- I've now seen it in early spring just emerging and flowering, in mid-summer in its full velvety greenness (I actually thought it was a low Salix until I saw it in flower!) and  beginning fall colour on my recent visit..
I have seen some photos where it did not look so different from common Arctostaphylos uva-ursi, but the plants I am most familiar with, near the foot of Athabasca Glacier, look very different from it- with larger leaves, and many stems coming from rhizomes rather than above ground persistent stems (apparently they do both). It is also variously described as deciduous or 'marcescent' which apparently in this case means the leaves seasonally die but do not necessarily fall off- the plants I've seen mostly seem to shed them, as I only saw fresh leaves in spring.. I wonder if this relates to winter weather- how much snow/wind/rain there is to strip them off? If I do get any seedlings it will be interesting to compare habit here to the alpine location..

I'll never really know if my heroic intervention  will help --well, if there is no germination, I'll know it didn't help! but if there is germination, I wont know if its just due to outdoor winter stratification..lol.. I don't really have enough of the small seeds to try many different things, so there is no control group!

Cohan, your description could be of the species growing here, A. alpina. Do you know it? What are the main differences, do you know?

I've gotten germination of some Ourisis coccinea from Gene too ;D (Thanks, Gene)

There may be some other differences (I've read the descriptions but forget), but the obvious one is black berries on alpina vs red berries on rubra.
We only have rubra in Alberta, I think- oddly, Flora of Alberta only mentions rubra, but efloras North America mentions alpina as occurring in Alberta, though rubra is sometimes labelled as a subspecies of alpina or of Arctostaphylos alpinus..
I went to check the efloras genus description to see the difference in the species, but the page is down for maintenance..

Dave, what a range of flower colour! 

Tim, legume seedings must be among the cutest... Lupinus chamissonis is a beauty - I must look that one up.

Well done, Fran.  I seem to recall having lousy luck with Pterocephalus... must try again.

Silene petersonii.
Finally some colour today in a pot of seedlings sown ,(x Ron Ratko's seedlist), way back in March 2009.

Having been potted on only once ,maybe well over two years ago, probably accounts for the foliage ,including flowering stem,only being 5 cm in height.

I love how the macro shot shows the prominent veining on the fringed petals of this little beauty.

Cheers Dave.  

Well worth the wait!  :o

I wonder what kind of seed pod it will have...

Cute little plant, Dave.  I wouldn't be surprised if the striping on the calyx remains prominent on the seed pods, as with Silene uralensis (below) and many other Silene:

It would be interesting to see another photo later on when it's in seed.

Its a cutie, Dave!

A handsome little cutie, Dave! Much better than most native Silenes here ;)

Dave - congratulations on flowering Silene petersonii, it's one that I have always wanted to grow.

Found an excellent image of Silene petersonii, the plants growing among a jumble or rock, alongside the North Loop trail on the NW slope of Charleston Peak, Spring Mountains, southern Nevada (elev. about 3500 m).
On this wikipedia page, there are a number of images sizes, select a large image to see the details.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Silene_petersonii_1.jpg

I think I'll have to try that neat little Silene! And wouldn't you know we sell them at Rocky Dale Gardens! It has nevered flowered in the pot and looked a bit on the weak side so I didn't take much interest. The plants came from Sunny Border and they use a pretty heavy mix. A repotting with a much lighter soil mix might be in order for these to do their best.

Thanks all regarding the Silene --it never set seed ........ :'(

Here's an Ixiolirion tataricum flowering from my own 'home' seed . :P :P

Cheers Dave.

RickR wrote:

              Oxytropis nana - germinated at room temperature in 2 days after scarification and 2 hour soak.  It was quite amazing how quickly they absorbed water.  In the 2 hours it seemed like they doubled in size, but in reality they increased in size by about 50%.

I did a second trial at room temperature with an equal number of seed from the same batch (NARGS Seed Ex seed wild collected in Wyoming) unscarified and not soaked.  One seed emerged in 35 days, so far.
              [attachthumb=3]

Comparing my methods and results to yours in general, it appears to be the scarification that's the key, not the soaking.  I don't soak any pea family seeds (or any other seeds with exception of a few drops of GA-3 solution for gentians), yet get comparably rapid germination.