Seed starting chronicles 2012

Thanks for the info about Syncalathium/Melanoseris, Mark - I'll add that to my records.

The very unfamiliar things I'm growing are mainly from this year's (and past) orders from Mojmir Pavelka and Vojtech Holubec, collected in Turkey, China, Macedonia and Greece, Kazakhstan, and Russia.  (I'll go back into that posting and add some more detail about the species, provenance, etc..)

So far as deciding whether they'd need stratification or not, well, I make some wild guesses!  
I made the assumption that Brassicaceae and Asteraceae may be less inclined to need stratification than some others.   What does everyone think about that?
If they don't germinate after, say 3-4 weeks, I put them in the cold room for some chilling, and pull them out again in 6 weeks or so for another try.

I scarify all Fabaceae, and then try them at room temp, which usually works.  (I think that's pretty standard... ?)

Other than that, I rely a lot on an article by Alan Bradshaw (Alplains) about seed starting that was published in the CRAGS newsletter, which gives some useful guidelines for which genera generally need stratification and which don't... and I refer to Dr. Deno's texts, although many of the more exotic genera aren't covered there.

Looking back at my notes, I grew Inula rhizocephala in 2009 at room temperature and had germination... enough to result in several plants to set out.  I didn't note how long it took to germinate.  So, perhaps it might have done better with stratification, I don't know.

Good show Lori and Fermi :)
I looked at the Syncalathium when looking over Holubec's offerings- I'm more and more enamored of many Asteraceae, but some of these Himalayan oddities are especially exciting...

Re. eFlora of China's treatment of Syncalathium souliei as Melanoseris souliei:
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=132065

The Plant List doesn't seem to agree; it shows Syncalathium souliei as a recognized species, but not Melanoseris souliei... but who knows how well Chinese alpines are integrated into this list?
http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/gcc-34700
http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/search?q=Melanoseris+souliei

A few more...
Geranium magniflorum - from the NARGS seedex, ex. Joubert's Pass, E. Cape, S. Africa; germination in 7 days at room temp; scarifying certainly does seem to promote rapid germination!

Inula cf. kitamurana - seeds from Holubec, collected "Russia, Zhdanko, Sakhalin, 180m elevation, rocky grassland, perennial, 40cm high, large yellow flws, 2011", germination in 6 days at room temp.

True leaves now on Salvia pachyphylla:

I can only just about keep up! There is some great information in this thread. I have quite a few of the seeds Lori mentions from the Czech collectors yet to sow. Really interested by the Ebenus species; I grew E. cretica from Archibald seed for several years in the garden - lovely foliage and rather extraordinary heads of flowers, all in all like a cross between a clover and a lupin. I have seed of quite a few Dalea species from Alplains, and find these legumes completely fascinating (for one thing there is no end of them!). Now the days are getting longer and brighter, conditions are improving for sowing in the greenhouse, so hope to have some things to show in a while.

I only have Ebenus cappadocica in the garden so far, from seed in 2010, so I hope it will bloom this year.  I hope you will show us your Dalea, Tim!

Here are some updates on Ebenus pisidica, Microula tibetica, Geranium magniflorum, Inula aff. kitamurana:
       

I had to look up Lomelosia graminifolia, Todd - nice plant!
http://www.florealpes.com/fiche_lomelosiagraminifoli.php
http://luirig.altervista.org/photos-search/index.php?title=Lomelosia+gra...

The Plant List doesn't like that name much though, and only considers Lomelosia divaricata to be a valid representative of the genus (which is in the familiy Caprifoliacaea):
http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/search?q=lomelosia
http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/kew-2339549

I thought perhaps it was Scabiosa graminifolia but the foliage character may be somewhat different with the presence of some stem leaves... ?  
http://www.plantsystematics.org/imgs/dws/r/Dipsacaceae_Scabiosa_graminif...
BTW, The Plant List doesn't like the name Scabiosa graminifolia much either!
http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/kew-2593392

I wonder how or if the name will be resolved.

More germination results...
Ipomea leptophylla seedlings have already been moved into separate pots, and the seed leaves are starting to die off:

Update on Saussurea nupuripoensis; Arenaria pseudoacantholimon is looking like stiff little half-size Acantholimon seedlings;
 

Anaphalis cf. monocephala - seeds from Holubec (China, Serkym La, Tibet 4400m, granite scree, prostrate plant, grey tomentose triangular leaves, 3-5 capitules on 12 cm long stems, 2010 seed); germinated in 12 days at room temp.

Dryas integrifolia (wild-collected locally) germinated in 5 days at room temp (and the same for Dryas drummondii):

Sideritis clandestina - seeds from Pavelka (1600 m, Taygetos Mts. Greece;tufted strongly white lanate plant,yellow flws in whorls, 20-40cm, stoney slopes, 2009 seed); germinated in 7 days at room temp.

http://www.greekmountainflora.info/Parnon/slides/Sideritis%20clandestina...

Agastache pringlei - seeds from Alplains, collected in Mexico; germinated in 6 days at room temp:

Thanks, Trond.  I figure the only way I'll get to see some of these things is by trying to grow them!

I've had to resow Thymus aff. haussknechtii after a set-back.  The seedlings died off after I removed the pot from the covered tray.  I think the roots had not yet extended down through the fine crushed granite top dressing that I'm using this year, and so did not find enough moisture.  I tipped out the crushed rock and sowed the remainder of the seed in the pot, where the roots will be able to penetrate down into a finer-grained (but still very permeable) mix.

Update -  true leaves on Cancrinia tianshanica:

Onobrychis argyrea - I grew this 2 years ago and was quite surprised that it didn't winter over, so I'm trying it again; the seeds germinated in 6 days after scarification. It did bloom in the first year from seed, which was nice, though the flowers were not so intricately-patterned as on some Onobrychis.

 
Here is sainfoin, Onobrychis viciifolia, an escape from cultivation, that has beautiful flowers:

Silene bolanthoides - germinated in 8 days at room temp; seeds from Pavelka (1700m, Kaz Dag, Turkey; dwarf dense cushions, short linear leaves, flowrs solitary or 2-4, stemless or very short scape, white to pale pink, petals deeply bilobed, 1.5cm across; rare, one of the best of Silene kinds; stoney places, 2008 seeds); a delightful plant - I'm growing more for backup, and possibly to disperse at the CRAGS plant sale.
 

This is supposed to be Leyospora pamirica - a Brassicaceae, from Holubec (China, Kunlun, 4200m, cold alpine scree, small caespitose pl, 3-5cm high, fleshy dark green lanceolate lvs, solitary large rose flws, 15mm wide, thin peduncles, 2011), but I suspect it was either an errant seed or was mislabelled, comparing to the photo. Should be interesting, nonetheless!  It germinated in 4 days at room temp.
   
http://holubec.wbs.cz/1Kunlun-Shan-Xinjiang.html

Marrubium lutescens - seeds from Pavelka (2000m, Sultan Dag, Turkey; taller plant to 40cm, yellowish lanate lvs., white flws, stoney slopes, 2010 seed); germinated in 7 days at room temp.

Mathiola anchifolium - seeds from Pavelka (600m, Hezanli Dag, Turkey; low strongly white tomentose, linear leaves, 10-20cm, brown flws aging yellowish, 2006 seed); germinated in 7 days at room temp.

Campanula scoparia - germ in 13 days at room temp

Erysimum leptophyllum - germ in 12 days at room temp

Trachelium rumeliacum - germ in 8 days at room temp

Silene caryophylloides ssp. echium - germ in 9 days at room temp

Tibetia tongolensis - seed scarified, germ in 6 days at room temp

Aethionema saxatilis ssp. oreophila - germ in 11 days at room temp

Patrinia villosa - germ in 6 days at room temp

Anthemis cretica ssp. leucantemoides - germ in 6 days at room temp

Marrubium lutescens - germ in 7 days at room temp

Amorpha canescens - seed scarified, germ in 6 days at room temp

Hoy wrote:

Do you have anything that don't germinate?

Yes, always! The easy ones are fun but I always end up with plenty of empty pots at the end of the season, when I lose interest.  (Yeah, I know I should be keeping these over the winter or for even more than one year, but I have limited patience!  I keep some.)  I've started keeping slightly better records in recent years (though I always end up with some gaps!) - I got something like 65% germination on a species basis in 2010, and only 45% in 2011!  I tried lots of South American species in 2011 that I was spectacularly unsuccessful with.

There's definitely randomness there, Amy, but I am using sand or grit as a top-dressing in most pots this year.  I thought it might reduce algae and moss growth on the top of the soil, which might be helpful for things that take a long time to germinate, and I think it is helping with that.  I thought the grit, in particular, would be useful to elevate very tiny seedlings above the soil surface, so that they can't be overgrown by moss and also so that they aren't momentarily inundated when I water the pots.

I think your seedlings look terrific, Amy!  I would imagine the ones you feel are a bit chlorotic will probably come around.  I wonder if the browning of the Aconitum seed leaves isn't just the effect of the light source somehow (e.g. very close to the lights, which is probably overall a good thing, nonetheless)?  They look otherwise pretty darn healthy.

Rick, it's great to hear that your stats are in the 50%-ish range too - very encouraging! 

Myself, I wouldn't bother to take any particular measures concerning the seed leaves - they look healthy, just reddened (maybe it's normal in that species, who knows?)... and they're going to die off later anyway.  So long as the true leaves are alright - and they look fine - I'd keep the light as close to the seedlings as possible.  Light seems to be the most important factor to starting seeds indoors, and if there is a problem, it often comes from inadequate light, as opposed to too-intense light.

Rheum delavayi - germ in couple weeks(? - one of the gaps in my records!) at room temp; seeds from Holubec ("China, Beima Shan, Yunnan, 4800m, slate scree, dwarf rhubarb, 10-30cm high, entire undulate leaves, red petioles, racemes of reddish flws, red winged seeds, 2008")

Saussurea nuda update:

Saussurea nepalensis - germ in 5 days at room temp; NARGS seedex

Oxytropis viscida(?) - seeds scarified, germ in 3 days at room temp; guess I didn't scarify them too effectively though, given only 2 seedlings emerging!

Lactuca intricata - germ in 4 days at room temp; seeds from Pavelka ("2000m, Boz Dag, Turkey; low suffruticose subshrub, 10-25 cm, lots of solitary blue flws, dry stoney slopes, 2009 seed")

Antirrhinum molle - germ in 10 days at room temp; seeds from SRGC seedex

Acantholimon caryophyllaceum ssp. caryophyllaceum - germ in 4 days at room temp; NARGS seedex

Achillea gypsicola - germ in 5 days at room temp; seeds from Pavelka ("1200m, Cankiri, Turkey; compact cushions, linear grey hairy lvs, 3-5 big yel flws on scapes 10-20cm, 2009 seed")

Cynoglossum amabile - germ in 4 days at room temp; SRGC seedex

Centaurea deflexa - germ in 14 days at room temp; seeds from Pavelka ("1900 m Tashkent, Turkey; tufts or small cushions, linear white tomentose lvs, stemless yellow flws, very good, loamy slopes, 2010 seed")

I usually stratify Campanula... although I've gone the other route occasionally and found the odd species that doesn't seem to need stratification at all, e.g. Campanula topaliana.  With Saussurea, I think it was the absence of much info that caused me to start them in warm conditions, although not always successfully by any means.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if you get much better germination than I do, overall, with the stratification.  In some cases, the one or two seeds that germinate for me in warm conditions may just be the "oddballs" among the population in the seed packet...  At any rate, stratification is certainly not harmful (which seems to be something people often wonder about).

Edit:  I have only got one seedling of Campanula scoparia, which may suggest that stratification would have been the way to go for it!  Time will tell if it really even is Campanula scoparia.

Updates and a few new ones:
Thlaspi bellidifolium - germinated in ~10 days at room temp

http://www.zrehacek-alpines.cz/os/obrT/Thlaspi_bellidifol.jpg

Mathiola anchonifolium:

http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4810.msg130562#msg130562

Aster asteroides - germ in 11 days at room temp

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=Aster+asteroides&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1916...

Helichrysum noeanum - germ in 10 days at room temp

Gentiana straminea - treated with GA-3 (I meant to leave these in the solution of a tiny bit of GA-3 in a few drops of water overnight but forgot and left them 3 nights); germinated in ~7 days at room temp.

http://www.gentians.be/index.php?page=plant_portraits&pic=282

Really wonderful to see all those seeds germinating - and to see someone else with Lactuca intricata! Who but an alpine grower would want to grow a shrubby lettuce. I have this germinating too and really look forward to seeing what it does.

My experiences are that only around 50% of seed generally germinates (although I get much better results with home collected seed). Peter Erskine in one of his articles in the AGS Bulletin quoted a similar figure, so it seems reasonable even when you try every which way to improve germination.

We are having superb warm sunny days here and a lot of seeds are beginning to come up. The amsonias quite surprise me - tomentosa - the seed is very large relative to other species I have grown, and Alplains advice to sow warm has worked well (others I have always sown outside over winter). Eriogonum caespitosum and Saussurea I received late and put in the fridge after sowing for 4-5 weeks; they are coming up nicely now. Similarly Edraianthus pumilio, one of my all time favourites. The Dudleya was very old seed from Ron Ratko, and like Buddleya utahensis, tiny! These have germinated with bottom heat in the greenhouse but are growing on very slowly. Quite a bit more to come (and quite a bit more to sow!).

Mark - I'm not sure where I got the 'y' from, especially since I labelled the plant with a 'j'. I must have been halfway further on in the sentence! Very interesting to hear more of the background of the genus and family(s). I have always liked the genus, quite apart from its attraction to butterflies and other pollinators, and we have grown a number of more unusual species over the years, including crispa, a lovely thing that I first saw at Beth Chatto's, and colvilei, which has relatively enormous flowers. I hadn't come across some of these American species before, and there are several more in South America pictured on the Chileflora site. There is a book on the genus, published by Timber Press, which I have been meaning to get for some time so will have to check it out again.

Everything is looking great, Tim!  
What does your Lactuca intricata look like?  Here's mine, looking very lettuce-like indeed at this stage.  It's transformation into a subshrub should be interesting.

http://www.pavelkaalpines.cz/Photos/Turkey2009/lactucaintricataturkey.html

Aethionema saxatilis ssp. oreophila - seeds from Pavelka (collected:  2300m, Aroania Mts., Greece; small glaucous plant, 3-6cm, pale pink flws, limestone rocks); seeds germinated in 11 days at room temp.

Anthemis cretica ssp. leucanthemoides - seeds from Pavelka (collected: 1700m, Kaz Dag, Turkey; very dwarf plant woody at base, linear silvery-green lvs, solitary white flws, 3-8cm, stoney places, 2008 seed); germinated in 6 days at room temp.

Bukiniczia cabulica - germinated in 10 days at room temp.  I got seed from both the NARGS and SRGC seedexes and put both in the same pot; the SRGC seed looked like Acantholimon (and has not germinated yet - perhaps not fertile) while the NARGS seed appears to be the real McCoy; either way it seemed I would get something very interesting!

Hi Lori - yes that really does look lettuce-like! My seedlings are still very small. We have grown for many years a big herbaceous 'lettuce', Cicerbita plumieri (also sometimes labelled Lactuca). This is a very robust plant to 2.5m or more, with the typical violet-blue flowerheads. I've always liked it so I look forward to seeing what this species does. In the past I also grew Cichorium spinosum, and this is very attractive and neat, and would be nice to get again.

RickR wrote:

Ya know, Lori... that Lactuca is big enough to nibble.
It looks pretty tasty! ??? ;D

A pretty meagre salad though... those are only 2 5/8" pots.   :D

A few more including a couple that have been potted on:
Linum viscosum - seeds from Alplains; started germinating in the cold, after 1 month in the cold room:

Draba tomentosa - seeds from Pavelka (collected: 2500m Korab Mts, Macedonia; dense grey cushions, big wh flws on scapes 3-8cm, limestone rocks); germinated after ~20 days at room temp.

Androsace bisulca v. brahmaputrae - seeds from Holubec (collected: China, Gyamda, Tibet, 3700m, mountain grassland, unique plant, rounded cushions, 3-8cm wide, 1-2cm rosettes, large rose-red flws on 2-4cm long stems, 2010.  Also China Zhoka, Tibet, 3500m, rock terraces, 2010); started germinating in the cold, after 33 days in the cold room:

Anarthrophyllum desideratum - seeds from Holubec (collected:  Argentina, Col. Belgrano near Perito Moreno); scarified then germinated in 10 days at room temp;  so far, so good, though only one measly seedling... poor thing probably won't stand a chance in the real world outdoors!