Miscellaneous Woodlanders

Interesting observations, Mark!
I suppose you intend to plant the new plant out some place and compare the specimens next year when the new one has had a better life than restricted in a pot.

Daniel J Hinkley mentions in his book "The explorer's garden. rare and unusual perennials" that "The large, sharply lobed, maplelike leaves (of K.palmata) are borne in opposite pairs . . . . .. Atop stems that rise to 6ft (1.8m) on content individuals, cymes of elegant pendulous, pastel-yellow flowers are produced on lax pedicels in late summer . . . . . .The nodding floral branches are what distinguish this species from K. coreana, the flowers of which are borne on a stiffly upright inflorescence. With a stem reaching nearly 7ft (2.1m) high on robust specimens, K. coreana can be somewhat larger than the Japanese counterpart".

He also mentions that the University of British Columbia Botanical Garden has successfully crossed the two species. Possibly others have done too.

Fascinating!  Thanks Trond!  I think there is so much parroted (mis)information out there on the internet, it's hard to get to the root of these situations.  And as well, plants in cultivation, when lacking well known and accessible botanical information, are often mixed up because there is little basis for comparison and any correction.  But when I saw this potted plant of K. koreana, I was struck with the obvious differences between it and palmata.  The Hinkley description is interesting, and now I'm more anxious than ever to see if the buds on K. koreana remain upright.  

It is curious that in the Flora of China entry for K. palmata, reports flowering and fruiting months as: Fl. Apr-Mar, fr. May-Aug, which seems completely wrong, the early dates surely an error, as Kirengheshoma is a late summer blooming.  Flora of Japan gives flowering time as August.

By the way, I do have The Explorer's Garden book, but didn't think to check it, thanks for the insight.

About K. palmata, I found one site that states: The flowers of most of the plants seen in gardens are a fairly deep yellow, though the colour of wild specimens ranges from white to apricot.

We've had regular rain this summer, but even so, with the extra heavy total rainfall from last week's Hurricane Irene (Tropical Storm Irene) by the time it reached us, Kirengeshoma palmata is more floriferous than ever, certainly enjoying all that rain and repaying in kind with a burst of new flowers and more buds (left photo).  And my recently purchased and planted K. koreana shows buds a trifle swollen, still waiting for them to open (photos 2 & 3 on the right):

Another moisture lover (although taking normal moderate dry soils well, but not drought) is Leucoceptrum stillipilum, the Japanese Shrub Mint.  This is a small Asian genus, and at least with a couple species I know about, are superb autumn blooming plants that excel in shady woodland conditions.  It's been perfectly hardy for a number of years, and unlike what might be implied by the common name, it behaves as a woody-stemmed herbaceous perennial, all growth dying down over winter and resprouting with fresh shoots in the spring.  It is worth growing for the board, textured foliage, looking something like a Hydrangea.  In mid October the buds expand into stamen-candles of lavender.  Here are some photos of foliage and buds taken today, and a freshly expanding flower taken Oct. 15th, 2010.

There's a fine lime-green variegated form sold by Plant Delight's Nursery, and two leaf forms of L. japonicum in these links
http://www.plantdelights.com/Leucosceptrum-stellipilum-October-Moon-Pere...
http://www.plantdelights.com/Leucosceptrum/products/233/

My Kirengeshoma has declined the last years and isn't much to beheld :(
I think I have to move it to another site.

Leucoceptrum stillipilum is a rare one! I don't think I've ever seen it for sale anywhere anytime :o Does it produce seed?

Hoy wrote:

Leucoceptrum stillipilum is a rare one! I don't think I've ever seen it for sale anywhere anytime :o Does it produce seed?

Nope, never seen seed; this plant flowers mid October through November, and by the end of flowering, the season shuts down and we're into freezing temperatures and often some snow, so seed on such late bloomers never has time to develop.

The last blooms on Anemonopsis macrophylla just finished up.  The form I have is not the best, and this season I only had 1 bloom stalk versus the 5-6 stalks I usually get, not sure why the deficit. The individual flowers deserve to be uplifted for close inspection, as they are extraordinarily beautiful.

Yours are better than mine anyway. I haven't had any blooms at all this summer :(

I've got 3 A. macrophylla from 2 different growers. the 2 from Ellen Hornig are much more compact than the one from Peter Joppe and they are planted pretty near each other. But they all bloomed and now I'm hoping for a good seed set.  :D

What a gorgeous flower! I've never seen that one offered.....if you get enough seed to share keep me in mind please  ;D

Dave, just love the flowers on Asarum, they're so shy and whimsical.  A. caudatum is one of my favorites here.

Continuing on the Kirengeshoma front, buds on K. koreana finally opened, not sure if its flowering so late because its a young nursery-grown potted plant (now planted in the garden) or whether it is naturally so late flowering, waiting until September.  With all the rain that we've had this season, K. palmata is flowering more than ever, a full 2 months of flowering!  I'm convinced the buds that form at leaf internodes are indeterminate; that is, a seemingly unlimited number of buds can continue forming as long as conditions allow and promote such floriferous behavior.

Here is a recent shot of K. palmata on the left, show more outfacing flared bells; in the background is the foliage of Saruma henryi.  The middle and right-hand photo are of K. koreana; the flowers more distinctly nodding, remaining more closed and incurved, lovely when lifted up (as I've done in the photos) to see the overlapping petal twist... the flowers on both are thick and waxy.

Great photos, everyone. 

Mark and others who have contributed, I am really glad you're keeping up on the K. palmata vs. K. koreana subject.  It is very helpful.

Thanks Rick.

Unless there's another surprise flush of flowers, Kirengeshoma palmata has put on its final hurrah, just a couple waxy flared flowers left for the season.

Wim, is that a Saxifraga fortunei hybrid or selection?  Beautiful deep color, and most valuable for the late flowering.  What can you tell us about 'Sugar Plum Fairy'?

A local NARGS member, Jim Jones, has been selecting pink form of S. fortunei and they are delightful, although mostly his are a softer pink.  I moved mine this year as it was swamped by more aggressive neighboring plants, but in its new hasn't done much... will have to go out and look to see if any buds are showing; here it flowers VERY late; usually October.  The color on mine however is very pale, looking white in photos, but it is actually a blush pink. Here are two photos from October 2008.

OMG Wim, you would have to go show me that site!  I want them all!!!  Such a diversity of color and flower forms; I'm intrigued by the bilateral form of many of the cultivars, and of typically the species itself.  I see what you're saying, the Sugar Plum Fairy on that site is very pale pink... whatever yours is, I love the deep color.

I snapped a photo of my plant before leaving on my a business trip, the stems and buds have appeared, although the whole plant has "downsized" since I moved it; didn't seem to like being moved.

Those Scoliopus are so cool!  8)

Following up on my previous post on Japanese Shrub Mint or Leucosceptrum stellipilum (page 11 of this thread, or use this link: http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=593.msg11128#msg11128), after being gone on a business trip for a week, it is now in flower.  Had to take photos in the rain today, makes the leaves look shiny but they are actually have a textured matte consistency.  It's looking good this year due to all the rain, much to its liking... not a plant for drought conditions.  I like having plants that begin blooming in October, and will grow and flower in the shade!  Several selected views, the first one 1 week ago before my trip, with the buds elongating; the remainder from this rainy day a week later on October 1, 2011:

I am a little jealous of this one, Mark, as I've said before. Never seen it except here.

Today i have planted some Trilliums in a new bed - or an old one which I cleared of overgrown shrubs. I have to look for Scoliopus too!

Recent view of Japanese Shrub Mint or Leucosceptrum stellipilum, at its peak on these very warm days of October 2011.  In the background is Eupatorium rugosum 'Chocolate'.

Eupatorium rugosum 'Chocolate' is one of the finest native species and selections for shady autumn garden.  All season long the foliage is a very dark chocolate color, somewhat lightening up by fall, then a long season of fresh white flowers.  Grows about 3' tall.
http://www.northcreeknurseries.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/plants.plantDeta...

Of the many Asters in bloom now (Symphyotrichum and other astery-micro-split genera), the most common is Aster cordifolius, the Blue Wood Aster.  While having a somewhat uniform and familiar appearance from afar, it is incredibly variable when observed at close hand.  It can be weedy, in fact, the edges of woodlands and stone walls that line rural streets here in New England, can become a haze of smokey lavender blue from this species' profusion.  In the past I allowed too many seedlings in my garden, so it has to be kept in check, which is easy enough... just allow some to grow in spots here and there for 6 weeks or more of cheerful display.

I have to pay Crûg Farm Nursery a visit once, they have a lot of interesting plants -and don't dispatch to Norway! A pity.
I have been wanting that Leucosceptrum ever since Mark showed it the first time.

I once had Aster cordifolius too; now I wonder what has happened to it, haven't seen it this fall.
Euptorium certainly is more than the one I know of!

Hoy wrote:

I have to pay Crûg Farm Nursery a visit once, they have a lot of interesting plants -and don't dispatch to Norway! A pity.
I have been wanting that Leucosceptrum ever since Mark showed it the first time.

I'll have to pay attention to the spikes of Leucosceptrum, to see if there are late maturing seeds within those scale-like bracts.  If we have a long mild autumn/early winter, and a reasonable amount of dryness, there's a possibility for sufficient time for seed to form.  For 2 of the last 3 years I got seed on Kirengeshoma palmata, even a few self sown seedlings... the first ever to appear.

Trond, did you notice on that Japanese nursery link you gave on the Allium 2011 topic, that they offer 2 named forms of Leucoceptrum japonicum!  They do international shipping, although they don't give much in the way of details about that fact.
http://yuzawa-engei.net/11English/08Leontopodium/Leontopodium_page.html

McDonough wrote:

Trond, did you notice on that Japanese nursery link you gave on the Allium 2011 topic, that they offer 2 named forms of Leucoceptrum japonicum!  They do international shipping, although they don't give much in the way of details about that fact.
http://yuzawa-engei.net/11English/08Leontopodium/Leontopodium_page.html

Yes Mark, I noticed and have done something too ;)

Interesting, Aaron, neither did I know they were that rare. I am looking for koreana!

Afloden wrote:

Mark and others,

Kirengeshoma is a superb genus that I do not grow, or I should say, have not been successful in keeping alive. Would love to try it again now that I live in a gardening climate.

The two species, koreana and palmata, really are distinct both in morphology and genetically. From the authors a recent paper on the phylogeography of the genus; "it [koreana] differs, however, by a hexagonal green
(vs quadrangular purplish) stem, denser trichomes, paler and fewer flowers, and elongated stigmas." Qiu et al., New Phytologist (2009) 183: 480–495. Their phylogeny and haplotype data suggests both species should be recognized with P. koreana being the older species and the Chinese and Japanese palmata more recently diverged.

Strangely I did not have a single paper on the genus saved to my extensive pdf library! Must be misplaced somewhere in all the files. Also, I did not realize that palmata is only known from 7 populations and koreana from a single mountain which contains a single population!

Aaron

I'd love to find information that clearly delineate these two species; I believe that is the source of the problem, there is precious little accessible information that makes the difference between these two species clear.  In my informal google research, there is some belief that there is only one variable species.  I have not heard nor realized that the native distribution of the two species is so perilously restricted, I hadn't had that impression when doing casual research.  I had done lots of research previously, but in a more brief effort tonight, here are some links to technical papers that include information on native distribution of the 2 species.  Some links are "for-purchase" papers, but one can read the "abstract" or summaries of the papers to get an idea of content.  I know that I previously saw many other pages that showed plant species distribution, but here are a few:

http://www.springerimages.com/Images/LifeSciences/1-10.1007_s10265-006-0...

"Predicting the Distribution of Three Vulnerable Japanese, Plants: Rosa hirtula, Kirengeshoma palmata, and Salicornia europaea"
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=kiengeshoma%20distribution&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CD0QFjAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nies.go.jp%2Fs4_impact%2Fpdf%2F20091118_Conlisk.pdf&ei=Uy4WT4yZMIeK2QXW5KCOAg&usg=AFQjCNEWdmqimvpsPPFzQyGWZT0YPuUDuA

"Molecular phylogeography of East Asian Kirengeshoma (Hydrangeaceae) in relation to Quaternary climate change and landbridge configurations"
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-8137.2009.02876.x/pdf

"Genetic diversity of the endangered species Kirengeshoma palmata (Saxifragaceae) in China"
(a for-purchase document)
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0305197805001675

One of the better short Polygonatums from China (and Russia) is Polygonatum acuminatifolium. 
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200027841

A friend of mine bought this as Blanchette Nursery nearby (Carlisle Massachusetts), I hear that he has an excellent selection of Polygonatum species and cultivars. 

This one has the cutest boxy white green-tipped flowers and very neat short growth under a foot (< 30 cm).  So far is has spread but moderately.  I have earmarked a piece for you Aaron :)

Mark, I fully agree! Although I grow several Polygonatums I don't have this one and it is one of the better I've seen!

Neat and rather large flowers. Wonderful ;)

Hoy wrote:

Mark, I fully agree! Although I grow several Polygonatums I don't have this one and it is one of the better I've seen!

Neat and rather large flowers. Wonderful ;)

I am in agreement too! Beautiful large flowers on a good sized plant! I'll be sowing seed of Polygonatum biflorum..should I soak these first or sow just sow & stratify?

AmyO wrote:

I'll be sowing seed of Polygonatum biflorum..should I soak these first or sow just sow & stratify?

Not sure about sowing Polygonatum seed, I have no experience growing them from seed, but I'm sure someone else here will be able to answer; I'm anxious to learn how to grow these from seed too.

AmyO wrote:

I'll be sowing seed of Polygonatum biflorum..should I soak these first or sow just sow & stratify?

Deno says:

P. biflourum seeds collected in October. Washed in water and cleaned with three rinses with water daily for 7 days, and placed outdoors germinated 90% in May-June.  None germinated in 70F with light, 70F in dark or 40-70 (3 months at 40F then 3 months at 70F).

RickR wrote:

AmyO wrote:

I'll be sowing seed of Polygonatum biflorum..should I soak these first or sow just sow & stratify?

Deno says:

P. biflourum seeds collected in October. Washed in water and cleaned with three rinses with water daily for 7 days, and placed outdoors germinated 90% in May-June.  None germinated in 70F with light, 70F in dark or 40-70 (3 months at 40F then 3 months at 70F).

Thanks Rick! ;D Outdoors they go! I love this forum...I always something new! :)

Amy, have you remembered rinsing the seeds several times a day for a week ;)

Afloden wrote:

With Polygonatum there have been a few germination studies to facilitate their production for vegetables in Asia. In all cases (P. cirrhifolium, P. macranthum, and P. odoratum) cleaned seed stored cool for 30-40 days, then warmth for 60-90 and then cool/cold again for the same duration gave a green leaf upon warmth again. This means a whole 2 seasons are gotten through in the first year. I have flowered verticillate species in 3 years this way.

Aaron: Do you have any references to cultivation of Polygonatum as vegetable in Asia. I have various references to their wild collection as vegetables, but can't recall seeing anything about their cultivation for food, although I haven't searched very hard...

Thanks

Hoy wrote:

Amy, have you remembered rinsing the seeds several times a day for a week ;)

Trond....these are from the NARGS exchange and so are already cleaned.

Afloden wrote:

Yes, stored moist. Sow them and then give a cool period.

They are sown in 5" plastic deli containers in moist potting mix and in the fridge for the next few weeks. I will follow your directions and see what happens! And thanks.

Hylomecon vernalis (syn H japonica) is one of my woodland favorites. Although the flowers don't last long they are very welcome. The plant tolerates deep shade and fits perfect in my woodland. Seems that the former 2-3 species are lumped into one.