Seed-starting chronicles 2011

Lori, what temp is you cold room?  I do try to keep track of others' experiences.  Thanks for posting.  I haven't planted anything except some delayed hypogeal germinating lilies.  So far:

Species/nargs#-year of seed collection

Lilium kelleyanum ex Ratco 1909-09 -- germ 1 week,68F(20C).All 4 seeds germinated immediate epigeal. Must not be L. kelleyanum
Lilium ledbourii 1913-09 -- germ 30 days,68F(20C)
Lilium monadelphum col. Georgia 4539-07 -- germ 26 days,68F(20C)
Lilium monadelphum col. Russia 4266-09 -- germ 21 days,68F(20C)
Lilium monadelphum var. szovitsianum col.Georgia 4540-07 -- germ 25 days,68F(20C)

I have planted about 60 different species, about 1/2 is outside.
The rest stand in a room in the basement (12-17C) together with 40 pots that germinated last fall.
These have germinated in the last days:
Rhododendron sp
Triodanis perfoliata
Scilla obtusifolia
Hedysarium boveanum
Urginea undulata
The last three are gifts.

Rick, the cold room is 44°F (6.6° C) right now, while it's 39°F (4°C) outside.  It's insulated and vented to the outdoors, so it was probably a bit colder when it was -20°C out.  The rest of the basement - including the furnace room area where my plant table is - is close to ~20°C.

Trond, what light source do you use to keep germinated seedlings/plants indoors all through the winter?    How many months would that be?  (I know your winter must be much shorter than ours... well, whose isn't? :rolleyes:)

Several sprouts now of Helianthemum germanicopolitanum - a yellow-flowered Helianthemum from Turkey - after ~8 days, warm.

Skulski wrote:

Trond, what light source do you use to keep germinated seedlings/plants indoors all through the winter?    How many months would that be?  (I know your winter must be much shorter than ours... well, whose isn't? :rolleyes:)

Several sprouts now of Helianthemum germanicopolitanum - a yellow-flowered Helianthemum from Turkey - after ~8 days, warm.

I use common white 64Watt fluorescent tube light and place the pots 20-30cm from the tubes. The temperature goes down at night when the light is off so the plants grow slowly. Occasionally I loose some plants - overwatering and/or irregular watering.

Last fall i had to bring the seedlings into the basement from the cold greenhouse mid November (unusual cold weather) but usually I do not move them before Xmas or I place them in a slightly warmer one which I can heat. I bring them back to the cold greenhouse March/April depending on weather.

The sun doesn't give any warmth before ultimo February, my place faces West-Northwest.

Does anyone have any advice on how to start Lomatium columbianum?  Deno advises cold treatment.  I tried that last time and unfortunately had zero germination.

He says germination in the 7th week at 40.  That's a long time to wait.  Isn't in interesting that some of the Lomatium spp. die when give 3 months at 70F...

Sorry. No help from me.

Hi, Rick,
Well, I guess 7 weeks is not so bad given Dr. Deno's standard of 3 month temperature periods...  :P
Okay, into the cold room with them, and I will hope for better results this year.  

A few little things from under the grow lights...
1) Astragalus utahensis

... which I hope will survive to look like Anne's gorgeous plants, here:
http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=24.0;attach=7852;image

2) Scutellaria hypericifolia:

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200020317

3) Aloinopsis spathulata... one more try to see if it will be hardy for me.

4) Onosma paniculatum.  I grew some last year as well, and seeing that they are said in the attached description to be biennial, here's a shot at trying to get them to the state of being self-seeding (assuming wintering success this spring).

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200019166

5) Calandrinia umbellatum... very much in need of potting-on!  (This is what happens with very fine seed and a laissez-faire attitude to planting.)  A rank experiment... perhaps with excellent drainage, a south-facing exposure and the shelter of rocks in the tufa garden... ?

http://www.wildgingerfarm.com/Calandrinia.htm

Anyone else willing to share pix of seeding efforts?

I have about 80 pots in cold storage at the moment...will bring the first into heat in about 2 weeks, after 6 weeks strat.  I have a few pots indoors sprouting but I cannot recall the species (I am actually in Calgary visiting my brother at the moment).

Well I have more Lilium spp. that germinated and are producing their tiny underground bulb, like the one I had on the image of the day:
http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=24.0;attach=11559;i...
But to the non-lilium aficionado the species would all look the same, I think.

I did have an interesting development with one seed of Lilium monadelphum collected on Mt. Gunib, Daghestan, RU: it is producing scales like a lily bulb might do in its second (or greater) year!  In addition, the scales are spaying apart rather than appressed.  If it were treated with colchicine or some other altering  chemical (which it was not), this would be an indication of the bulb converting to a tetraploid from a diploid.   I don't know what to think of it.  At any rate, it is special and one to watch.  Excluding the three scales, the bulb is about 1.5mm in diameter.  The other four germinated seeds from this batch are progressing normally.

Your skills are admirable, Rick!  I certainly don't have the patience for lily seeds.

A few little things, looking rather cute as the true leaves develop:
1) Astragalus coccineus

2) Astragalus missouriensis

3) Oxytropis besseyi var. ventosa

4) Trifolium nanum

5) Penstemon albidus

6) Penstemon attenuatus var. attenuatus

7) Penstemon euglaucus

The 2010 NARGS seedex list had a fabulous selection of Salvia!   (Many may yet be available from the surplus seed list, which I have not yet checked.)
Salvia are generally easy, warm germinators, as I determined from the extremely helpful seed starting advice that was published in a CRAGS bulletin last fall, and these followed that pattern.
The tiny first true leaves on both of these are intriguingly furry:
1) Salvia cyanescens

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvia_cyanescens
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/98524/

2) Salvia hypargeia

http://www.pavelkaalpines.cz/Photos/Turkey2010/salviahypargeiaeofgoremet...

Here are a couple of useful reference sites for the less common Salvia:
http://www.robinssalvias.com/blue/c.shtm
http://www.rmrp.com/Reference/OnlineRefSS.htm

Looking good Lori!  I just found my missing 150 packets of left-over NARGS seeds from last years seedex...all are now sown with most in the root cellar for a now, short strat period...I hope 4 weeks is long enough! At last count I have over 250 pots sown!  I expect many will be duds as the seeds were kept at room temp.

I hate it when that happens. 

It seems I am always "misplacing" seed packets!  ;D
Somehow, they get all over the house...

Some excellent links Lori, love Salvia cyanescens, and I think I shall be spending some hours on the Robin's Salvias web site... unfortunately I sense a new overpowering plant lust coming on... SALVIA!

Todd wrote:

I just found my missing 150 packets of left-over NARGS seeds from last years seedex...all are now sown with most in the root cellar for a now, short strat period...

Wow, that must have kept you busy for a while.  :o  I envy that you have not only your yard but also a botanical garden to plant in - what luxury!  (On that note, I will be digging up old perennial beds and toting stone around this spring to make more rock garden space... but still have no real plan in mind for the new beds.) 

RickR wrote:

It seems I am always "misplacing" seed packets!  ;D
Somehow, they get all over the house...

Worse yet, I think, is misplacing the seedlings... For example, I grew a rather interesting clematis last year, but where the heck did I plant it?  ???

Misplacing seedlings? I do it every year! Once I even weeded out some totally forgetting what it was and that I actually had planted them! I needed space for another batch ;D
Seedbags do I store in a fridge in the basement.
BTW i have sown about 200 pots and 100 more to sow. In a week i'll move some pots out to get more space indoors.

For me, the crux is the point where I have to start separating seedlings into individual pots... where there was one pot, there is suddenly 4 or 6!  I can only keep that many with the amount of room I have!

... although the whole operation will be made easier this year, when it finally gets warm enough to start putting plants out during the day, then putting them back into the garage at night - which won't be for some time yet (oh, have I already mentioned that?  ;D ;D) - by the addition of this new, deluxe, turbo-charged, heavy-duty plant cart! 
Tah dah!! 

Feast your eyes on those sturdy locking wheels!  That solid construction - it holds 4 trays per shelf (without the frightening wobbling of old plastic shelf system)!  The sleek lines.... It's the Rolls Royce Silver Shadow of plant carts!  Or maybe the Lockheed Starlifter of plant carts, I dunno. (Try to imagine it without all the crap piled on its shelves... and maybe with some flames painted on the sides...  ;D)
Envious??  Yeah, I thought so...  :D :D

A couple of quick shots of some of my babies.  Pots are sprouting daily!

I can see your picture Lis but I couldn't see Fermi's (in another thread).
Your shed is similar to one of mine made of recycled window panes.

Hoy wrote:

I can see your picture Lis but I couldn't see Fermi's (in another thread).
Your shed is similar to one of mine made of recycled window panes.

I've re-posted them in the hope that others can see them! ;D
(Fermi, your reposted images fixed the problem, thanks!  Mark McD)

Lis,
that shows what determination you guys in Canada have to have to raise all those seedlings!
cheers
fermi

Skulski wrote:

For me, the crux is the point where I have to start separating seedlings into individual pots... where there was one pot, there is suddenly 4 or 6!  I can only keep that many with the amount of room I have!

... although the whole operation will be made easier this year, when it finally gets warm enough to start putting plants out during the day, then putting them back into the garage at night - which won't be for some time yet (oh, have I already mentioned that?  ;D ;D) - by the addition of this new, deluxe, turbo-charged, heavy-duty plant cart! 
Tah dah!! 

Feast your eyes on those sturdy locking wheels!  That solid construction - it holds 4 trays per shelf (without the frightening wobbling of old plastic shelf system)!  The sleek lines.... It's the Rolls Royce Silver Shadow of plant carts!  Or maybe the Lockheed Starlifter of plant carts, I dunno. (Try to imagine it without all the crap piled on its shelves... and maybe with some flames painted on the sides...  ;D)
Envious??  Yeah, I thought so...  :D :D

Lori, if you get only 4-6 pots for each sowed you are luckier (or maybe more restrictive) than me - I usually get the double! (Can't throw any seedling :-[)
Do you export your (patented I suppose?) Rolls Royce Silver Shadow? I'll have some ;D

Todd wrote:

A couple of quick shots of some of my babies.  Pots are sprouting daily!

Nice and orderly, Todd. Do the babies have famous names?

Hoy wrote:

Todd wrote:

A couple of quick shots of some of my babies.  Pots are sprouting daily!

Nice and orderly, Todd. Do the babies have famous names?

I actually copied-pasted Todd's pics of seed pots, so that I could rotate the image 90 degrees to the left (to make the labels right-reading), and zoomed in a bit, to see what species were planted.  Curious minds... :rolleyes: ;D

McDonough wrote:

Hoy wrote:

Todd wrote:

A couple of quick shots of some of my babies.  Pots are sprouting daily!

Nice and orderly, Todd. Do the babies have famous names?

I actually copied-pasted Todd's pics of seed pots, so that I could rotate the image 90 degrees to the left (to make the labels right-reading), and zoomed in a bit, to see what species were planted.  Curious minds... :rolleyes: ;D

I thought of doing something like that - but figured Todd could tell me if he wanted to ;)

A few more little goodies...
Salvia indica - easy, warm, germination in 6 days:

http://www.google.ca/images?client=safari&rls=en&q=salvia%20indica&oe=UT...

Papaver sp. from Tajikistan, collected by Panayoti; easy, warm -germinated in 11 days:

Scutellaria resinosa - easy, warm; germinated in 6 days:

http://www.rmrp.com/Photo%20Pages/SS/Scutellaria%20resinosa%20100DPI.htm

Campanula cervicaria - easy, warm; germinated in 22 days:

http://sophy.u-3mrs.fr/photohtm/HI924.HTM

Campanula orphanidea - in cold room for 1 month, then germinated in warm after 9 days:

http://www.greekmountainflora.info/Falakro/slides/Campanula%20orphanidea...

Orostachys iwarenge - easy, warm; germinated in ~18 days:

http://www.rockwallgardens.com/Succulents.html

Penstemon davidsonii var. praeteritis - in cold room for 1 month, then germinated in warm after 9 days:

http://www.ubcbotanicalgarden.org/potd/2009/05/penstemon_davidsonii_var_...

Potentilla megalantha - easy, warm; germinated in 6 days:

http://www.wildgingerfarm.com/Potentilla.htm

You really know to choose the right plants, Lori! I always wonder why I didn't choose those! The only one I have is the Potentilla i think ;D

Lori, nice touch... finding a good photo link for each!  Salvia indica looks like a special one, with different flower coloration than many. The UBC photos of Penstemon davidsonii var. praeteritis show stunning mounds of this species, wow :o

Nice plants, Lori.  Were these all direct warm germinators, or were they in you cold room first? 

(Especially asking about Orostachys iwarenge)

Rick, the Orostachys iwarenge was an easy, warm germinator (which I think is the norm for the genus); seedlings in ~18 days.   NB.  I went back and added notes on germination in case it's of use or interest to anyone.  Yes, most didn't require stratification.

Hoy wrote:

You really know to choose the right plants, Lori! I always wonder why I didn't choose those!

I just close my eyes and pick sometimes, Trond.  ;D  Then I kick myself for having forgotten the ones I really did want!

McDonough wrote:

The UBC photos of Penstemon davidsonii var. praeteritis show stunning mounds of this species, wow :o

Yeah, I wouldn't be too disappointed if mine ended up looking like that.  ;)

We've had a long stretch of cold weather, night temperatures to 17 F (-8 C) and day time temperature just a little above freezing, so when I walked around looking at the bare frozen ground, and a bunch of seed flats sitting on the frozen ground, I didn't expect to see signs of germination. But two flats of Ungernia sewerzowii, a rare Amaryllid from Kazakhstan, showed fresh germination. The daily routine of frigid nights followed by just-above-freezing mid-day temperature is supposed to continue... not sure if I show bring the flats inside to protect them from tonight's freeze; or since they germinated in this cold, maybe that's what they want.  I sowed more seed of this species around in various spots in the garden last summer; haven't checked to see if there is germination there yet; some areas of snow still remain.

4 seedlings visible on the left side

Here's what this beauty looks like in flower:
Ungernia sewerzowii
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/12700.html

seed heads:
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/38905.html
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/38907.html

Ungernia on Pacic Bulb Society wiki:
http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Ungernia

A good start towards growing an amazing plant, Mark!

Marmoritis (Phyllophyton) decolorans, a furry little gem:
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=210001233
http://www.alpines.be/Tibet/imageFull281.htm

Skulski wrote:

Marmoritis (Phyllophyton) decolorans, a furry little gem:
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=210001233
http://www.alpines.be/Tibet/imageFull281.htm

An awesome plant Lori, I love the squareness on the mature plant.

Saponaria cypria, from the SRGC seedex:

I hope it looks familiar, Mark?
http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=325.0

I haven't tried Saponaria from seed but a lot of other, mostly shade tolerant species.

Looks good, Trond!  But you're going to have to tell us what they are - I can't read any of those labels.  (I tried, of course!  ;D )

Ok, I'll do it - tomorrow ;) It's no secrets but I do not remember all - I do not write the names till I am sure the plants survive. Many have only numbers  on reused labels with several names on them!

Here's an interesting development (to me, at least  ;D) on Saussurea medusa seedlings... looks like a little cotton swab growing out of the cotyledon:

http://p21chong.wordpress.com/2010/04/19/snow-lotus/
(Good heavens, the site above says that tourists pick Saussurea laniceps... !?!?!  :-[)

Teucrium orientale:

http://www.rmrp.com/Photo%20Pages/TT/Teucrium%20orientale%20100DPI.htm

Salvia dolichantha:

http://theseedsite.co.uk/profile479.html

Asyneuma lycium:

Skulski wrote:

Here's an interesting development (to me, at least  ;D) on Saussurea medusa seedlings... looks like a little cotton swab growing out of the cotyledon:

Without the cotton swab I would have guessed a maple seedling ;D

(Good heavens, the site above says that tourists pick Saussurea laniceps... !?!?!  :-[)

I have read they even break stalagmites/stalagtites from caves :o

For your curiosity, Lori:

Here are some pf the seedlings ;)

Erythronium mix

Leucocoryne purpurea

http://www.chileflora.com/Florachilena/FloraEnglish/HighResPages/EH0436.htm

Rhodophiala splendens

http://www.chileflora.com/Florachilena/FloraEnglish/HighResPages/EH0015.htm

Ribes magellanicum

Tecophilaea violaceae

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archivo:Tecophilaea_cyanocrocus_var._violac...

Trichopetalum plumosum
http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Trichopetalum

. . . and many more  :o

Wow, it looks like you have had excellent germination on some really choice plants!  What extraordinary flowers on Trichopetalum... reminiscent in appearance of some of the more bizarre Calochortus.

Skulski wrote:

Wow, it looks like you have had excellent germination on some really choice plants!   What extraordinary flowers on Trichopetalum... reminiscent in appearance of some of the more bizarre Calochortus.

Excellent germination, but then . . .

Hoy wrote:

Skulski wrote:

Wow, it looks like you have had excellent germination on some really choice plants!   What extraordinary flowers on Trichopetalum... reminiscent in appearance of some of the more bizarre Calochortus.

Excellent germination, but then . . .

In my Australian-Flora-Fascination days many years ago, I ordered seed of one of these tricky Trichopetalum species, had some germination, then the seedlings tricked me by dying.  Such a crazy-interesting genus.

A few to report:
These germinated at 70F after about one month of a 40F cold treatment
Silene nigrescens - 6 days
Silene suksdorfii - 4 days
Silene uniflora 'Rosea' - 4 days
Talinum paniculatum - 6 days

Fritillaria tuntasia - germinated at 40F. Seed planted Sept 2009, subject to outside temps.  I candle all my frit and Lilium seeds, but still plant any suspect viable seed.  This frit, I hadn't found any seeds with definite embryos, but one (so far) has come up anyway!

Oooh, well done!  That's an enviable collection of Silene!

Hoy wrote:

Here are some pf the seedlings ;)

Ribes magellanicum

Trond, good to see a photo of this Ribes, it looks most appealing, I like the hanging racemes of red flowers.  I had a couple of seedlings of this, only about 1" tall as of last year... too early to know whether it survived a second winter.

I always hold ungerminated seed pots for 2 years, you never know if there will be some delayed germination action.  Today I checked a tray of seed pots sown in 2009, and there was germination of two desirable Allium species, A. akaka (shown) and Allium materculae (akin to A. akaka), both from Vlastimil Pilous seed, and a pot of Penstemon arkansanus (shown).  I love when that happens. :D

I also have more 2010 sowed results:

Last season I planted seed of Hieracium lanatum, and also Hieracium villosum from two sources.  Seed was planted on 2 April 2010, and H. villosum germinated 7 and 8 days for the two lots.  H. lanatum did not germinate that season, but it has now sprouted one year later (12 April 2011), after exposure to outside temps for the year.  One of the Hieracium villosum lots also sprouted many more seedlings in the second year.

Also planted in October 2009, two more Fritillaria have sprouted:
F. pallidiflora
F. rhodocankis
Both had one seed each germinate last year, but now have eight and three more, respectively, in addition.

Fritillaria pallidiflora

McDonough wrote:

Hoy wrote:

Here are some pf the seedlings ;)

Ribes magellanicum

Trond, good to see a photo of this Ribes, it looks most appealing, I like the hanging racemes of red flowers.  I had a couple of seedlings of this, only about 1" tall as of last year... too early to know whether it survived a second winter.

Looks like there's been an influx of Ribes magellanicum seed - I had germinated seed in 2009, but it didn't make it to 2010 (very hard winter). I expect you'll have more success, Trond - I'll be looking for cuttings in a few years :)

Here's a picture of part of this seedaholic's set up. I germinate most perennials outside in a cold frame - I'm not in a hurry, so they just germinate naturally when they're ready. I keep the seed trays for 2 or even 3 years in the case of woody plants. You will notice that I have sowed several species in each container - I make sure that I only mix seed that I can easily tell apart at the seedling stage...

About 10 have germinated so far...

Just checked, my Ribes magellanicum overwintered and enters its 2nd year of life.  It is about 9-10 cm tall.

Stephen, your overhead view of seed pots loots like a crazy quilt ;D

Stephenb wrote:

Looks like there's been an influx of Ribes magellanicum seed - I had germinated seed in 2009, but it didn't make it to 2010 (very hard winter). I expect you'll have more success, Trond - I'll be looking for cuttings in a few years :)

I'll keep it in mind, Stephen, but my mind isn't what I would like it to be so you better do remind me later ;D

Luetkea pectinata - surprisingly easy from seed.

http://www.wildgingerfarm.com/Luetkeapectinata-PartridgeFoot.htm

Scrophularia crithmifolia (Why, yeth, I do thspeak with a lisp.)  I'm not sure why I'm growing this - it looks stunningly underwhelming...
http://www.euskal-herria.org/node/21594  

Pyrethrum tatsiense

I keep on coming back to this thread to see what some of you are germinating  :P --then searching the web or looking up the links to plants i am unfamiliar with.Wonderful........So much promise.

Here's my contribution ---A couple of pics of some of the results of the last 2/3 months, repotted last weekend into 1 litre pots.

Some of the North American contents are--

Viola pedata.
Lesquerella artica.
Asarum caudatum and A. hartwegii.

Others---
Various Cyclamen including C. graecum --C mirable x tilebarn--C.cilicium alba.
A number of Crocus --C mathewii --C longiflorus --C. niveus--C. goulimyi.
Tigridia chiapensis
Hepaticas
and others.
Oops nearly forgot --also an onion for Mark  :) Allium wallichii.

Cheers Dave

Hoy wrote:

I'll keep it in mind, Stephen, but my mind isn't what I would like it to be so you better do remind me later ;D

What was it I was supposed to remind you?

Did I say anything? Can't remember I did :o

With a three inch snowfall ten days ago that melted in three days, and yesterday's two inches that has melted today, I have a bunch of 40F germinators that have come up.  Sow dates accompany, and it's clear that keeping pots for more than just one season pays off.

Fritillaria biflora - 2 Oct 2009
Fritillaria bucharica - 5 Oct 2010
Fritillaria carica - 2 Oct 2009, several. one seed germinated in 2010
Fritillaria collina - 5 Oct 2010
Fritillaria crassifolia ssp. kurdica - 2 Oct 2009, several. two germinated in 2010
Fritillaria pallidiflora - 5 Oct 2010
Fritillaria pyrenaica - 2 Oct 2009
Fritillaria sewerzowii - 5 Oct 2010
Fritillaria whittalii - 2 Oct 2009
Lewisia cotyledon - 2 Oct 2009
Penstemon whippleanus - 25 March 2010
Tulipa urmiensis - 1 March 2010

I have been candling my Fritillaria seed, as I do with Lilium seed. While the fritillaria embryos that I see are unmistakable, it is clear from my trials that these were not the only fertile seed: I still plant what may be chaff, and many have sprouted in batches where I had seen only one or two embryos. So candling for fertile fritillaria seed is not effective. 

But then, if I had just asked, someone probably could have told me that...

Rick, that's a lot of Frits!  You'll have to show us again in 4-5 years when they bloom ;D

Dave, thanks for thinking of me and my alliums.  Just so happens, that I'm getting excellent germination from a whole bunch of Alliums collected in Kazakhstan; here are a few of them.  The species names and collection info is written on the seed pots.

Just numbers not names! Maybe some new species?

Hoy wrote:

Just numbers not names! Maybe some new species?

Some are named; in the view above, there is A. caeruleum and A. drobovii, received about 5 different collections of the latter species, which is a species not generally in cultivation... in the following link, click on the paper icon on the far lest of the listing, then click on the thumbnail images... mot a great beauty, but may be interesting nonetheless.

http://pgrc-35.ipk-gatersleben.de/pls/htmldb_pgrc/f?p=265:3:3216571044925997::NO::P3_SCIENTIFIC_NAME:395

Speaking of patience:  I sowed some Actaea pachypoda on 3/08.  They are coming up now (4/11).  They've been at outdoor temperature (near Portland, OR) all this time, in a slightly moist mix in a shaded place.

I've only just looked through this fascinating thread. Over the years running a small specialist nursery I tried to divide plants into manageable groups that needed different sowing regimes. Generally for a lot of alpines, and quite a few woodland plants our winters are not long and cold enough with snow cover to get really good germination. On those occasions when it is colder and we have prolonged snow we often found much better results. As soon as I see signs of seedlings I bring plants into a frost free greenhouse which warms up quite a bit in the late winter/spring sunshine!

The benefit of our winters though is that we get fluctuating temperatures and this is probably useful for many of the colder Mediterranean and semi-desert species I have tried, where temperatures do not stay so low right through the winter. Lori mentioned Lomatium columbianum earlier on and I have always sown this and other species as early as I have had seed and left outside all winter. Germination is often poor, but at least some come up. Umbellifers in general do much better from reasonably fresh seed sown in the autumn - older seed is usually dead, although I have had Eryngiums germinate well the second season. Once or twice I have gone to the lengths of putting seed (in damp sand) into a fridge for about 4 to 6 weeks. Several species stsrted to germinate in the fridge, including Lomatiums and Eriogonums, but unless you catch them just as they germinate or before they quickly etiolate and are less than easy to deal with. If you grow a lot of different things this quickly becomes very complicated, but it could be really useful for something special that has not germinated well by normal means.

It is great to hear how others get on with sowing seed (I have Deno's books but they become a bit mind-boggling after a time and I have always found it much more effective to use the time tested ways of sowing in pots). Hope I can add to the thread in the coming spring.

I typically rely on the tried and true seed germination method of allowing Mother Nature to make germination happen, leaving the pots or flats outside for the winter and see what happens in spring.  I like using wide peat flats, as I believe the moisture level stays more even than smaller plastic pots. 

Here is some germination from varieties that Jane Hendricks generously sent me (thanks Jane!), Senecio pudicus on the left, and Thlaspi stylosum on the right, but only two seedlings of Allium brevistylum... maybe more will germinate later.

The flat of Aquilegia saximontana (true) from Jane, I was most anxious to see some germination.  The other varieties shown above, germinated early spring, but no sign of life in the flat of A. saximontana... I figured that the seed must have failed. Then one day I noticed some germination, a few tiny seedlings.  Now it is thick with seedlings, must have gotten 100% germination.  I shouldn't watch seed pots every day, it's like waiting for water to boil or watching grass grow. ;D

I have planted out my seedlings of Thlaspi stylosum today! I don't need to water, it is more likely they drown :-\

Mark - I know what you mean about watching seed pots; its one of those exciting spectator sports that no-one else can understand! Your epimedium beds look spectacular too - here the combination of rabbits and drought haven't done them much good but wushanense does grow well. I think they are even more popular in the States than in the UK. My special love has always been Jeffersonia dubia, and a pot of seedlings of this brings joy to the nurseryman!

I've never said I am a good grower, but I do have some successes.  This is hopefully a good overall reference for some of the seedlings that have emerged this season for me.  The gibberish after the plant name is formatted: xxxx-yy-zz
xxxx=source.  If all digits, it's a NARGS seed ex number.
yy=year seed was collected.
zz=year planted.

A good portion of these are seeds that germinated in the second and even the third season after planting.

First Column – front to back
Ferula communis col. Spain 4257-08-10
Fontanesia fortunei SB-09-10
Vitaliana primuliflora col. France 4471-09-10
Penstemon whippleanus Ran-09-10 Lt,with 2 that germinated last year
Penstemon canescens 08-10

Second Column
Onosma euboica 2171-08-10 with a Silene (uniflora?) that germinated last year
Penstemon rupicola 2388-08-10
Pulsatilla alpina ssp. apifolia 2590-08-10
Penstemon glabrescens 2340-09-10
Sisyrinchium patagonicum 09XX440-09-10
Penstemon heterophylla Moy-09-10
Dianthus pavonius Ran-09-10

Third Column
Penstemon purpussii 2383-08-10
Phyteuma humile 2447-09-10
Iris pumila Vos-08-09
Aquilegia sp. Me-09-11
Iris sikkimensis 1782-09-11
Penstemon gomanii 2341-09-11

Fourth Column
Iris pumila Vos-08-09
Iris vicaria 1764-07-09
Thalictrum dasycarpum col. MI 1440-09-11
Aquilegia ecalcarata Me-09-11

Fifth Column
Sisyrinchium macrocarpum 2942-09-11
Pulsatilla kostyczewii 2625-09-10
Aquilegia vulgaris col. Slovenia 4072-08-10
Dianthus erinaceus Ver-09-10
?Aralia cachemirica 366-09-11w
Penstemon euglaucus 2334-09-11
Penstemon heterophylla 2345-09-11

Sixth Column
Acanthus hungarica Ver-08-09
Viola pedata 3199-09-11
Desmanthus illinoensis 07-09
Tulipa urumiensis Vos-08-10
Delphinium caucasicum Vos–10-11
Impatiens namchabarwensis Me-10-11
Ptilostemon afer 2429-10-11

Seventh Column
Corydalis ochroleuca Me-08-09
Anemone parviflora col. Alaska 4440-09-10
Anemon rivularis Sud-08,Vos-07-10
Pulsatilla alpina col Alps 4378-09-10
Delphinium triste Vos-10-11
Wulfenia baldaccii 2990-10-11
Aquilegia saximontana 315-10-11

Eight Column
Pulsatilla georgica 2616-09-10
Pulsatilla alpina col. Alps 4376-09-10
Pulsatilla violacea col. Georgia 4559-05/07-10
Pulsatilla alpina col. Alps 4375-09-10
Pulsatilla turczaninovii Me-10-11
Taraxacum pseudoroseum Boen-11-11
Alyssum pulvinare 167-10-11

Ninth Column
Allium togashi 149-10-11
Penstemon rupicola 2388-08-09
Stipa borysthenica 3006-08-11
Silene suksdorfii 2923-09-11

Tenth Column
Phemeranthus sediformis 2415-09-11
Silene uniflora ‘Rosea’ 2926-09-11
Aquilegia caerulea Me-08-11
Silene nigrescens col. Tibet 4521-10-11
Stipa borysthenica 3006-08-10
Lewisia cotyledon 1877-08-09
Styrax americanus ex Kankakee, IL Me-10-10

Cool seed growing presentation Rick!  This is a good example to illustrate one benefit of the way NARGS thumbnail image enlargements work, where it pops up a separate window.  Click on the enlargement a second time and it displays at the full large image size (for jumbo-sized images, such as in this case)... now you can move the enlarged-image-window around partially off-screen to simultaneously read the columns of seedling identifications while finding the seedlings in the photo-diagram... what fun to look at all those germinated seedlings.  Rick, you have a lot of transplanting to do!

You have good taste Rick, almost the same species as I have sowed ;D But you have control, I have not :(  Have been very busy the last weeks and seedlings are growing out of their pots.Too little time to plant them in separate pots.

Sown on 14 July 2010, these are just over a year old:

         Echinocereus viridiflorus and Echinocereus triglochidiatus
             

    Echinocereus reichenbachii: ssp. perbellus, ssp. rigidissima, ssp. baileyi
             

They all look about the same at this point...
             

One month from sowing last year, this is what they looked like;
http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=501.msg5305#msg5305

Rick,
it just shows what patience we need in raising such things from seed.
Here is a slight experiment I tried with some seed form a SRGC Forum friend in NZ: Muscari pulchellum and Scilla italica. I sowed half of each pot with seed at about 1cm deep and the other half just under the gravel topping.

It appears that the seed have germinated at about the same time but the buried seed have left the seed caps under the soil!
cheers
fermi

Fermi, good side-by-side experiment.  With Alliums, I struggle to find the right seed sowing depth, because some of the large-headed Melanocrommyum types when planted too shallow, invariably come up with the seed caps still on top, with the seedlings sometimes topping over and exposing the barely developed radical, so I agree it is better to sow some seed types a little more deeply to force the seed caps to shed upon emergence.  In the long run, both methods work well enough, but one must also consider the possibility of burying seed too deeply with insufficient light to stimulate germination.

Well, as I'm back to work with an even crazier schedule with extra long commutes and regional traveling, the idea of sowing seed "in situ" returns to the forefront as a most viable technique for those of us who have no time to coddle seedlings in pots.  Some things I started in pots from last year's sowing, have already "fried" in the heat and even just a few hours of drought, as they suffer unattended.  Not the case with seedlings sown directly in the ground.

In this view, here are 2-year seedlings of Helleborus niger that were direct sown, and 1-year seedlings of an Arisaema species.  The intent is to use the direct sowing method to bring seedlings along for a year or two, then transplant established small plants... but counter to best intentions, sometimes these seedling scenarios mature into more permanent overcrowded mixes.

As sown as Arisaema seed is ripe in the late fall, I sow directly in the garden.  The jagged edge seedlings of A. sikokianum are easy to recognize and don't need labeling.  When I sow the seed, I spread the seed out a little bit.

Now, I'm forever at war with chipmunks, and rarely do they do anything considered beneficial in the garden.  One hallmark of their annoying activities, is packing their cheeks full of seed of any particular seed variety (often this or that species of tree, or some dastardly weed), then burying their seed caches into tight "plugs".  In spring there appear small circular "bursts" of seedlings... always a single species, sometimes including bursts of hundreds of seedlings of Dicentra spectabilis (from my neighbors yard across the street).  Fortunately, these are easy to weed out.  But lo and behold, this year I found a tight circle of seedlings of Arisaema sikokianum, certainly from chipmunk sowing, the seed not spread out as I would have done.

Arisaema heterophyllum, from direct sowing, already showing additional leaflets.  The form I grow can reach 6' (2 m) tall.

Fermi wrote:

It appears that the seed have germinated at about the same time but the buried seed have left the seed caps under the soil!
cheers
fermi

And it seems, in this case, that the deep planted ones are doing better...

McDonough wrote:

The jagged edge seedlings of A. sikokianum are easy to recognize and don't need labeling.

So when does the jaggedness disappear?  the mature A. sikokianum I have seen have entire leaflets.

Rick,
I have to agree that the "deep" sown ones have sprouted a bit more generously than the shallow sown ones. I'll have to wait a bit longer to evaluate what success rate I get with each.

Mark,
I'm thinking that I'll have to try a few in ground sowings but mainly of things that don't transplant well for me - like astragalus! A problem we have here is predation by earth mites which keep down the number of self sown seedlings of autumn/winter/early spring germinators! germianting them in pots off the ground is one way to stop the mites apparently!
cheers
fermi

RickR wrote:

McDonough wrote:

The jagged edge seedlings of A. sikokianum are easy to recognize and don't need labeling.

So when does the jaggedness disappear?  the mature A. sikokianum I have seen have entire leaflets.

Just rediscovered your question Rick... not exactly sure when they loose the leaf jagginess, certainly mature plants have entire leaves without such fine jaggies.  Interestingly, I grow a dwarf form of Arisaema amurense called 'Jagged Leaf' that Darrell Probst collected (I believe, from Korea)... I'll have to post photos some time.

Lori, I am pleased to report that seed from you, of Allium ovalifolium var. ovalifolium, sown over 1 year ago, has germinated after our long periods of rain.  Not a great photo, but you get the idea, there are 8-9 short bent-knee seedlings popping up!  I have tried and tried many times with this species, and with my own Allium listera, and the darned things never germinate.  maybe they need extra moist conditions, such as the weather we've had this year.

From a SRGC Forum member in Moscow I had received seed of Allium pseudoflavum (looks like the true species).  I sowed the seed in a flat in late summer and they germinated in November, so I overwintered them on a warm windowsill.  In early spring they had gone dormant.  Leaving out the flat exposed to the weather all summer, even with lots of rain, I'm glad to see how they resprouted strongly over the past several weeks (the Codonoprasum Alliums tend to resprout with winter-hardy foliage in late summer to early fall).
http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2017.0;atta...
http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5766.0;atta...

A terrible photo, but just to show that the rare yellow-flowered Allium eriocoleum from Iran and Kazakhstan (mine collected in Kazakhstan), has resprouted in the last week or so.  I'm happy about this, not being familiar with growing the species I worried that they died when they disappeared in the summer.
http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=177.0;attach=9745;i...

Last is the extra fine form of Allium caeruleum from DBG (Denver Bot garden).  After the main plant flowers and dries up by midsummer, lots of small basal bulblets appear at the base of the stem; these can be harvested and planted... now with autum rains, they have resprouted.  Behind the grass-like sprouts is a much larger mature plant with bigger foliage, along with many of the basal sprout leaves as well.
http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=177.msg1254#msg1254

Cleaning up around my semi-smashed Magnolia trees (breakage from a surprise early-season 14" snowstorm when trees were in full leafage), I was pleased to find hundreds upon hundreds of Cyclamen purpurescens seedlings.  Left to their own devices, I do get some seedlings, but I'm guessing it is chipmunks and squirrels that take most of the bounty, but if I sit on the ground in the shade of a magnolia tree when Cyclamen seed pods are ready to shatter, and spend an hour or so to gather and immediately scratch the seed in to expand the colony, it WORKS!

Belatedly going to start some dryland seeds.  Remembered coral sand sold in pet shops and may incorporate some of that.
Do folks sterilize their soil?  Iv'e heard everything from pouring on boiling water to baking in the oven.  Guessing wouldn't want to bake at too high a temp (150F? or 225F?) any experience?
Charles Swanson MA USA

I may start with a pasteurized potting mix, but stuff I add to it, like sand, grit, compost, etc. is not.  Nor are my pots bleached or even cleaned well.  I really don't understand all the fuss when you are not dealing with micropropagation techniques, or finicky seeds.  I stick to the "all organisms work in unison, good and bad" principle.

Not that this is the only right way to do it, but it's the way I do it.

My process is much like Rick's... the base is potting soil but it's very heavily amended with sand, grit, and perlite.  As I plant things out, I dump excess soil from the pots into a bin and then I reuse it the next winter.  I never, ever wash pots.  Seems to work OK - damping off is not a problem.  

It sounds like coral sand would be pretty expensive if you need more than a little (given how such things are priced in the aquarium/pet trade).  I take it you are looking to create a calcareous soil?  If so, would it be possible to get that limestone grit that's intended to be fed to chickens (to provide CaCO3 for their egg laying)?

Thank you, Lori, Rick for the information and suggestions.  Will go out shopping for poultry grit tomorrow.  (I hate it when I buy an "alpine" plant and find it potted in commercial mix, and it so difficult to try to remove from the roots)
Charles Swanson MA USA