Re: Ribes

[Howey]

Hi Stephen:  Am wondering if, while you were in California, you came across Ribes lobbii.  Back in 2000 I found this plant with its fuchsia-like flowers and managed to collect a number of seeds.  Only last summer did I plant them and, after all that time, they germinated.  Have no idea how they will fare outside over winter, hopefully protected by a layer of leaves.  I understand they grow on Gabriola Island near Vancouver Island in B.C.  I do have R. odoratum, struck easily from a cutting a number of years ago and thriving, to put it mildly, ever since.  It needs severe cutting back every year but is a lovely, fragrant plant - makes nice cuttings for forcing at this time of year as well.  Not much berry production - the birds take most of them, making it difficult to get seeds.  Fran

Frances Howey
London, Ontario, Canada
Zone 5b

[Hoy]

Is anyone working on Ribes hybrids, I could imagine crosses between R. sanguineum that Julie showed us, and a fragrant yellow R. odoratum.

Mark, somebody already has done that cross! It is called R. x gordonianum and in my opinion seems to be inferior to its parents - at least from pictures I've seen.

I have been looking for R. lobbii but not found any source. Does anybody have some seed to spare?

[McDonough]

Did some research on R. odoratum, and I was surprised!

Flora of North America recognizes 53 species in its area
It does not recognize R. odoratum, and puts it in synonymy with R. aureum var. villosum.
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=250065805

Three varieties of R. aureum are identified, var. aureum, var. gracillimum, & var. villosum.
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=250063214
It is a bit irksome, that on the main page for R. aureum, in which the 3 varieties are discussed, and the bold classification of R. odoratum as R. aureum var. villosum, that there is no mention of "odoratum" becoming subsumed into a differently named variety, one of my criticisms of FNA that synonymy is often missing or when reclassified, the "path" to new reclassifications are often not mentioned, so it's hard to follow what new name a plant has become.

FNA reports Ribes as: Shrubs usually synoecious (R. diacanthum dioecious).  I had to look up "synoecious", I think it is a synonym for a "perfect" flower.
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=128544

[McDonough]

Is anyone working on Ribes hybrids, I could imagine crosses between R. sanguineum that Julie showed us, and a fragrant yellow R. odoratum.

Mark, somebody already has done that cross! It is called R. x gordonianum and in my opinion seems to be inferior to its parents - at least from pictures I've seen.

I have been looking for R. lobbii but not found any source. Does anybody have some seed to spare?

Thanks Trond, I didn't know the name of that one.  Looks darn nice to me:

Ribes x gordonianum
http://www.calfloranursery.com/pages_plants/pages_r/ribgor.html
http://www.calfloranursery.com/images/pics/q_r/ribes_gordonianum.jpg

This nursery has a wide offering of Ribes with some photos of great looking selections and species.

[RickR]

And didn't Ribes used to be in the family Saxifragaceae?
Now it is in Grossulariaceae.
------------
Synoecious, as defined in Plant Identification and Terminology (Harris & Harris):

With staminate and pistillate flowers together in the same head.

The accompanying drawing shows a spike with lower flowers producing stamens, and upper ones being pistillate.

Perfect is defined as:

With both male and female reproductive organs (stamens and pistils); bisexual.

The accompanying drawing shows a single flower - what we might call normal,  Like a daylily.

But according to the FNA Ribes key, synoecious and bisexual mean the same?
Curses on the non-existent eflora glossary!!!
Well, it is a dichotomous key.  I guess all we can say with surety is they mean "not dioecious".

[Hoy]

"Syn" means together and "oikos" mean home! They share the same home

Mark, the pictures I thought of when I said R gordonianum is inferior were pictures in a book. When I see those you found and others I've just looked up I agree, they are nice! Seems to be a much better plant than the book shows. Maybe some selection has been done since that book was written!

[cohan]

Lots of nice plants! I see besides appreciating my local natives I should be watching for some red and yellow flowered species!

[stephenb]

Hi Stephen:  Am wondering if, while you were in California, you came across Ribes lobbii.  Back in 2000 I found this plant with its fuchsia-like flowers and managed to collect a number of seeds.  Only last summer did I plant them and, after all that time, they germinated.  Have no idea how they will fare outside over winter, hopefully protected by a layer of leaves.  I understand they grow on Gabriola Island near Vancouver Island in B.C.  I do have R. odoratum, struck easily from a cutting a number of years ago and thriving, to put it mildly, ever since.  It needs severe cutting back every year but is a lovely, fragrant plant - makes nice cuttings for forcing at this time of year as well.  Not much berry production - the birds take most of them, making it difficult to get seeds.  Fran

Frances Howey
London, Ontario, Canada
Zone 5b

Frances: Yes, a nice one, but I didn't see it in California - I was too late for flowering in any case (end of August). However, I have tried it. I obtained seed from the SRGC seed exchange in 2005, planted it out in 2007, but it didn't make it through the winter....

[McGregor]

Just a note to say yes Rick the Ribes did use to be in the Saxifragaceae but these days all woody species (those in Grossulariaceae such as Ribes, Escallonia, Itea and so on, and others such as the members of the Hydrangeaceae) have been separated - by most botanists at least.

PS. If anyone fancies writing about the American currants for the Quarterly I'd be really pleased.

[Hoy]

PS. If anyone fancies writing about the American currants for the Quarterly I'd be really pleased.

I second that!

It exists an evergreen Ribes as well, namely the Chinese species Ribes laurifolium. I have had it in my garden for 15 years and it is completely hardy. I came to think of it when this Ribes-thread took off and found that I have to remove a strong growing neighbour (Neillia thibetica) also Chinese, as the Ribes is suffocating under it. My picture of it are all slides but I'll see if I can get some new ones later. The flowers are not as showy as some other Ribes but typical and very early in the season.

Ribes laurifolium (WIkipedia)


Other pictures:
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/nwest/msg0212155031387.html
http://www.hkolster.nl/home-nl/+fotobestanden/+ribeslaurifolium2.htm

[McDonough]

Trond, an attractive species as seen in your two links.  I have doubts whether it would be hardy here, given that it is an evergreen species, and the GardenWeb people blogging about it are in USDA Zone 7 - 8.  At ForestFarm Nursery it is listed as hardiness: Zone 8 (10 to +20 F).

[cohan]

This is a Ribes which appeared in a bed which has some spring flowers, Potentilla nepalensis etc.. I presume its a native sown by birds, though I have no idea which, and I can't totally rule out a seed having come in with some nursery plant... especially until it flowers-- maybe next season, since it was growing like crazy this past year (I'll have to move it....) Note the great colour, which I don't think lasted-- have to see if it appeared in later photos of the other plants...

[RickR]

Cohan, the non-uniformity of coloring (in more than one way) makes a genetic causation suspect, at least to me.  And it looks like new leaves are green and then turning color? (Although that could be possible.)  Certainly something to watch...

[cohan]

Cohan, the non-uniformity of coloring (in more than one way) makes a genetic causation suspect, at least to me.  And it looks like new leaves are green and then turning color? (Although that could be possible.)  Certainly something to watch...

I'll see what it does this spring, but I expect its just cold weather colour (common in many many plants here)-- this was early/mid May and that is a time with still regular frosts and occasional snow here.. the new leaf could be all green because it has come out in warmer weather than the first leaves of the year

[Hoy]

Are you sure it is a Ribes? I agree it can be but I think I spot a very winged petiole - or is it just the angle of sight?