Onosma and Lindelofia

[Lori S.]

A very interesting and attractive plant there, Mark.
Here's another Rindera species from the Pavelka site, Rindera caespitosa:
http://www.pavelkaalpines.cz/Photos/Garden2008/rinderacaespitosa.html

[McDonough]

A very interesting and attractive plant there, Mark.
Here's another Rindera species from the Pavelka site, Rindera caespitosa:
http://www.pavelkaalpines.cz/Photos/Garden2008/rinderacaespitosa.html

Wow, thanks for that one, fantastic, a lovely plant.  But now I'm confused more than ever about Rindera and Paracaryum, both being obscure genera of plants,  The links I provided of Rindera lanata show plants with heavily ciliolate involucres, the species with fairly consistent pink petals, but with trademark insanely silvered and wiskered pedicels and involucres that hold the flowers, almost more of a show than the flowers themselves.  In the one link I provided of Greek Rindera graeca, and in your R. caespitosa example, I see plants that look like Paracaryum, with showy flowers clear of the calyx lobes.  In fact, many of these boraginaceous delights seem to be assigned to one genus or another depending on author and what day of the week it is 

[RickR]

Although Onosma alboroseum is a bit bristly, I never found it to be so stiff (or bloodletting) as cactus thorns.  At least that is my experience.

[Lori S.]

Absolutely right, not like cactus thorns at all, but the dried bristles on Onosma stellulatum stick in the skin and cause the sort of irritation similar to that caused by cactus glochids... I try to remember to wear gloves.  

[Kelaidis]

Mark: you have made major botanical history by hybridizing two borages (Lindelofia and Rindera) to produce a shrub in the Lauraceae. I think this is Nobel Prize level hybridization indeed. No wonder you're so lightheaded! You have indeed turned a page of botanical history! We need a newer, more glorious Avatar.

I grew Rindera lanata for several years at Eudora (from Archibald seed) and have some transparencies I ought to scan: it's terrific, although not as stunning in flower as it is emerging from the ground as a great wooly ball of fuzzy glory. I collected seed of yet another Rindera in Kazakhstan last summer: huge, papery seedpods unlike any other borage. Hopefully these will produce plants!

As long as you're producing such spectacular crosses, how about a gentian blue rose or a

[McDonough]

Mark: you have made major botanical history by hybridizing two borages (Lindelofia and Rindera) to produce a shrub in the Lauraceae. I think this is Nobel Prize level hybridization indeed. No wonder you're so lightheaded! You have indeed turned a page of botanical history! We need a newer, more glorious Avatar.

I grew Rindera lanata for several years at Eudora (from Archibald seed) and have some transparencies I ought to scan: it's terrific, although not as stunning in flower as it is emerging from the ground as a great wooly ball of fuzzy glory. I collected seed of yet another Rindera in Kazakhstan last summer: huge, papery seedpods unlike any other borage. Hopefully these will produce plants!

As long as you're producing such spectacular crosses, how about a gentian blue rose or a

OK, I got the hint... so I go back to my previous posting to find out where you're getting the Lauraceae reference, then spotted it... dohHHH!  Not only once but twice I slipped up and wrote Lindera instead of Rindera... aarrggghhhh!  But now that you made the suggestion, I might begin looking into such a cross.

Working on a new Avatar.

Can't wait to see if you get good results on your Rindera in Kazakhstan.  Did you see any intergeneric crosses between Rindera & Lindera while in Kazakhstan?... I think these are called x RindeLindera.  

By the way, for those who want to get a plant of Paracayum racemosum, I see it available from Beaver Creek Greenhouses (shipping to USA & Canada), Plants of Paracaryum racemosum v. racemosum, Askale - Turkey, Zone 4, $6.00.
http://www.rockgardenplants.com/plantcatmain.htm

Photo: Paracaryum racemosum
http://www.ozgurdoga.net/aciklamacicek/Paracaryum_racemosum.htm

Wrightman Alpines also has Paracaryum racemosum:
http://www.wrightmanalpines.com/details.asp?PRODUCT_ID=P173

Rocky Mountain Rare Plants has seed, check out the 2nd photo link, it'll knock you socks off... looks different than the previous pics of Paracaryum racemosum.  Their seed list is now closed for the summer, one can hope for next years catalog.
http://www.rmrp.com/Catalog/CatalogContentP.htm
http://www.rmrp.com/Photo%20Pages/PP/Paracaryum%20racemosum001_ZZ100DPI.htm

[Kelaidis]

All those links to Onosma are enough to drive me crazy: especially that icy blue Onosma nanum: OH to get my hand on that. There is a red one in Turkey too...uggggh.

I have grown a half dozen, maybe a dozen yellow species over the years (echioides, stellulatum, helveticum, etc. etc.) and I confess, many look much alike, and I have no doubt they have all hybridized: at one point the Rock Alpine Garden was overrun with these, and with Pulsatilla vulgaris, Alyssum montanum, Allium flavum and a half dozen other vigorous self sowers: under current management (Mike Kintgen) all these have been restrained in order to showcase choicer plants...

But the ribald madness maintains itself at my house where I have what are probably now hopelessly hybridized Onosmas all over the place: they are thriving in cracks in the concrete, in a low stone wallk, in my unwatered xeriscape...everywhere I neglect to pull them out (which is everywhere). They bloom forever and the only bad thing about them is cutting them back (ouch! worse than cacti!)...but do I have a single picture to prove all this? In your best John Belushi voice repeat: "Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo"

[Lori S.]

Onosma paniculatum sounds like an interesting one, with blue- purple flowers, becoming dark red!  

I got seeds from Pavelka, and have had good germination.  His description: " 3400m, Zhongdian Mts., China; tufted plant, linear leaves,erect scapes 20-40cm,many blue-violet flowers, stoney slopes, shrubberies."

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200019166

[McDonough]

From NARGS Seedex several years back, labeled Onosma nana, came a rather tall Onosma species, about 30-40 cm, very bristly foliage, and large and lovely luminous pale yellow flowers.  Showy, but definitely not O. nana, the true species supposed to have white flowers tinged pink or blue, and red stems and calyxes, and of course, short stems.

The second is an Onosma species from Turkey.  The silver leaves are not bristly, stems tend to be decumbent, to about 20-25 cm tall, narrower bright yellow flowers.  This was from a known location in Turkey, although the lable has disappeared

I'm working on trying to identify these serviceable, hardy "borags".

[McDonough]

Searching http://www.ipni.org/ipni/plantnamesearchpage.do and inputting "Onosma" and "*" for the species name, comes up with 438 names!  Onosma is a big genus, with most of those having yellow flowers.

The name 'Golden Drop' seems to be a common name for yellow Onosma species in general.  Reginald Farrer writes about O. tauricum "Our well-beloved favourite old Onosma, the one and only Golden Drop of the garden", and goes on to say "gracious croziers of hanging ample flowers of a waxy and lemony lusciousness peculiar to themselves, and exactly asking for the name of Golden Drop in their melting confectionery clarity of colour and texture" . (he sure could pile it on  )
 
It is likely that my plant is one of the commonly grown Onosma species; echioides, stellulata, helveticum, tauricum, or others.  I need to take a closer look at each of these species descriptions to see if I can find a match.  The foliage on helveticum is described as bristly, so at least that aspect matches, but many Onosma are bristly.

[McDonough]

I found a photo link to the "Pyrenaean Golden Drop" (O. bubanii), a lovely Onosma with soft moonlight yellow flowers similar to my plant: http://www.lafloredespyrenees.fr/boraginacgenres/onosmabub/onos2.html


For comparison purposes, I have cropped a closeup flower crozier of my unknown "Onosma sp.", and compared side by side with two other species.  In the first, it is compared with a similarly sized crozier of Onosma stellulata (stellulatum?).  The flower shape and calyx lobe segments look similar in both, but stellulata has distinct green leaf-like bracts in the unfurling crozier, not seen in my plant. The same comparison with my "sp" and O. bubanii from a web image (flipped to face the same direction), again shows a similar looking plant, but the calyx segments look much longer against the flower in O. bubanii.

[McDonough]

Onosma paniculatum sounds like an interesting one, with blue- purple flowers, becoming dark red!  

I got seeds from Pavelka, and have had good germination.  His description: " 3400m, Zhongdian Mts., China; tufted plant, linear leaves,erect scapes 20-40cm,many blue-violet flowers, stoney slopes, shrubberies."

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200019166

Oh my!  Lori, that's an exciting one, keep us posted on the progress of this plant... and if it does flower one day and produce seed, please remember us Boragiphiles   Also, maybe Harvey Wrightman (http://www.WrightmanAlpines.com) will add this to his list one day, seems that he sells many species derived from Pavelka seed.  I notice from the plants he was selling at the NARGS Eastern Study Weekend at Devens, Massachusetts, that he has some plants in too small a quantity to put into his nursery list, yet may be available if asked.  I was able to buy Onosma araraticum (from Mt. Ararat, Turkey) which is not in his list, and at long last Paracaryum racemosum (upper right), which is on his list.  I'm excited!  I will post more about some of the NARGS ESW vendors elsewhere on this forum.

[McDonough]

A blue Onosma pic, O. sinicum:
http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=104467&flora_id=800

Onosma frutescens, nice yellow species from Parnassos & the Peloponnese, Malea Peninsula
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5063.0;attach=195558;image

[McDonough]

All those links to Onosma are enough to drive me crazy: especially that icy blue Onosma nanum: OH to get my hand on that. There is a red one in Turkey too...uggggh.

I have grown a half dozen, maybe a dozen yellow species over the years (echioides, stellulatum, helveticum, etc. etc.) and I confess, many look much alike,

But the ribald madness maintains itself at my house where I have what are probably now hopelessly hybridized Onosmas all over the place: they are thriving in cracks in the concrete, in a low stone wallk, in my unwatered xeriscape...everywhere I neglect to pull them out (which is everywhere). They bloom forever and the only bad thing about them is cutting them back (ouch! worse than cacti!)...but do I have a single picture to prove all this? In your best John Belushi voice repeat: "Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo"

I have yet to have a self-sown Onosma seedling appear in my garden... maybe I don't have as diverse a gene pool as you have to get such seed set.  I want to get some Onosma growing out of cracks in my driveway   I found out this spring, that even my Onosma sp. from Turkey, which has silky hispid leaves and can be handled without worry during the growing season, it too releases glochid-like irritant hairs when cleaning up around the plant without gloves on!  PS: are you sure John Belushi said that, I though it was Mr. Bill

[Todd Boland]

No luck with Onosma at my end...sowed seeds of two species and neither germinated...they would probably die over winter here anyway so no great loss.