Onosma and Lindelofia

[Lori S.]

Thanks, Mark!  I'll head over to the scutellaria post directly.  
Well, I don't have any satureja (don't even know if it will be hardy) or teucrium at present, but I felt it was about time that was amended!

The only lindelofia I have is Lindelofia anchusoides (can't remember the old name right now).  Not a petite rock garden species either, though the flowers are a terrific dark blue colour... which, unfortunately, this photo doesn't capture well.  (The only photo I have of it that does show the colour accurately is way out of focus (though the car across the street is in perfect focus  ))  Which others are you growing?  

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=250090337

I have a sneaking suspicion that Todd donated the Lindelofia longiflora seed to the NARGS seedex - if so, thanks, Todd!  After seeing his photo in the photo gallery, I figured it was something I needed to try!

I have only grown Onosma sericea stellulata to date.  I did start O. euboica last year from seed (another yellow one), and am interested in seeing if they might bloom this year (taking for granted, as I tend to do, that they will survive the winter, first!)  I covet O. alborosea (who wouldn't?) but have not acquired it yet.  I'd love to hear which ones you have.  

Amongst the pile of seed envelopes shown above (my Pavelka order), are some other Boraginaceae that I hope to be able to germinate (.... and grow... and winter over - I ask a lot, I know  ):
Arnebia densiflora, kansuensis
Moltkia aurea
Onosma paniculata - blue-violet flowers!!!
... and, circling back to "scoots", there is also Scutellaria hypericifolia from the same source, along with many other species that I know nothing about!

Winterfat would probably not be considered overly ornamental by anyone, but I think the white-furred inflorescences are kind of interesting, and worth a try!  (It's a plant of the dry prairie badlands east and northeast of here.)

[RickR]

Suffering from not enough sun and soil too rich for its liking, here is my Onosma alboroseum, or so the seed packet said.  i think it does pretty well, but just think of how it really should look!

[Lori S.]

I dunno, Rick, I think it looks very nice.  (You realize we'll all be hitting you up for seeds, now?)  Do you have any close-ups of the flowers?

[Todd Boland]

I've never tried Onosma but I have seeds for this year.  With 60" precip a year I am limited to aquatic alpines!

The Lindelofia longifolia did come from me....a stunning plant for a large rockery.

[McDonough]

I've never tried Onosma but I have seeds for this year.  With 60" precip a year I am limited to aquatic alpines!

The Lindelofia longifolia did come from me....a stunning plant for a large rockery.

Todd, that's a great looking plant.  How tall is it, and when does it flower? 

Your mention of 60" precip a year reminds me of Grand Ridge Nursery in Issaquah, Washington, where the owners Phil Pearson and Steve Doonan (sadly Steve recently deceased, a huge loss) devised alpine growing techniques specifically to meet the challenge of growing in an area of high rainfall (60+ inches, such as in your climate).  With some alpines and dryland plants they still struggled, but they were successful with a great many plants; growing them in enormous hard-fired clay pots that Phil made, sitting on benches fully exposed to weather year round, the pots filled from edge to edge with such treasures as Viola flettii or Campanula piperi, amazing.

[Lori S.]

How does that method differ from trough growing?  Is it, perhaps, the height of the containers?

[McDonough]

Rick, nice looking Onosma albo-roseum.  Do the flowers age pink or blue for you?  I grew this for a few years about a decade ago, liked it very much, but probably didn't give it enough drainage and it died one winter.  By the way Onosma alboroseum is highly variable, and there are several subspecies.  Here is a link to another forum thread, scroll down and look at the last photo showing a beautiful pink and blue flowered Onosma, with bright red stems, that I believe is Onosma albo-roseum var. sanguinolentum.
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4989.0

There's another little blue and white one in that series of unidentified Onosma, looks like a very good one.

Lori, your Lindelofia anchusoides looks like a winner with those true blue flowers.  How tall does it grow?  I got my wires crossed on growing Lindelofia; I had received seed from the MacPahil & Watson expedition to Turkey back in the late 70s, and from that I grew an unidentified boraginaceous plant.  Attempting to at least get a genus name on it, I looked at several of these confusing borags, of which Turkey has many, thinking it might be a Lindelofia, but ultimately settled on Paracaryum.  My plant had silver frosted hairy basal linear leaves, then a stem to 10"-12" or so, and drooping tubes of a unique red-maroon color.  There are 30 species in Turkey, and I never got a species name on it, and of course I lost the plant a couple years later.  To give an idea of a Paracaryum, here's a photo link:

Paracaryum racemosum
http://www.ozgurdoga.net/aciklamacicek/Paracaryum_racemosum.htm

Must start an Onosma thread, but in the meanwhile, here are some photo links to good Onosma 

Onosma albo-roseum, Turkey
http://www.ozgurdoga.net/aciklamacicek/Onosma_albo-roseum.htm

Onosma nanum, Turkey
http://www.ozgurdoga.net/aciklamacicek/Onosma_nanum.htm

Onosma cf. hookeri  Tibet, Kongpo Gyamda --> Lhasa, 3500m
http://www.jansalpines.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=2831

Onosma hookeri var. longiflorum  Tibet, Old Tingri, Lunjar village,4340m
http://www.jansalpines.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=16528

Onosma microcarpum Iran, Lorestan, Borujerd, Hashtevid Gorge, 1650m
http://www.jansalpines.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=19681

Onosma erecta, Crete
http://www.greekmountainflora.info/Crete/slides/Onosma%20erecta.html

Onosma graeca, south Peloponnese, Greece
http://www.greekmountainflora.info/Lowland/slides/Onosma%20graeca.html

[McDonough]

How does that method differ from trough growing?  Is it, perhaps, the height of the containers?

It's similar to trough growing, but because they were in large clay pots, they were portable, so they did have the option for example, to move potted Talinum spinescens to a bench alongside a barn for the winter, still exposed to weather, but buffered from prevailing wind and rain directions. 

But they applied a whole series of techniques. First the pots: because they fired thir own, they were the equivalent of "long toms" used in the UK, but Phil's pots were wide as well.  Phil used native clays and devised a high-fire procedure to make their pots more frostproof than typical clay pots (also, not as porous).  The nature of what they were cultivating influenced pot design, so for example, they would grow Saxifraga oppositifolia in a pot not as others, but very large and wide, as much as two feet across.  To see their huge 2' domes of Saxes in full flower was breathtaking.  When potting up a plant, such as Campanula piperi, they believed in achieving the highest level of soil aeration possible, so they scientifically devised varying soil mixes for different types of plants. And most importantly, when potting, they would hold the pot semi-sideways and carefully fill in the soil as loosely as possible... never compacting the soil even the slightest.

When I moved back to northeastern USA, I brought with me about a dozen Phil Pearson pots.  In the 24 years since I've been back in the East, I still have a couple of these pots left, but most did indeed break in the winter, the deeper New England freezing/thawing more of a challenge than in Washinton.

[RickR]

My Onosma alboroseum (from seed, of course) has flowers that fade only with a little pink at the ends.  So little that I initially wondered if it was suppose to be there.  Those links are great, Mark.  BTW, I donated the rest of the 1+year old seedlings to our Chapter sale, and they were a hard sell.  I thought the "dotting" on the foliage was interesting, but I guess it was too "out there" for most.  

I'm sold on Lindelofia.  Gotta get me some.

[Lori S.]

Lovely! 

Lindelofia anchusoides (formerly Adelocaryum anchusoides) gets to about 3 feet tall.

[McDonough]

Back in 1977, I purchased a seed share in the MacPhail & Watson expedition to Turkey.  Many wonderful plants ensued, some of which resulted in plant species now well established in cultivation, many others sadly lost (the subject plant is among them).  One of the more mysterious introductions is a unique boraginaceous plant, where the identification was clearly confused.  The plant looks Onosma-like; the only identification possibility based upon the seed I actually received, is Paracaryum sp. Mac&W 5747 (described as 25 cm, smokey blue), and Rindera lanata Mac&W 5781 (30 cm, pale salmon pink).

The problem being , the flower color was rich maroon color, not matching either possibility.  My plant grew to about 14" tall (35 cm), with densely hirsute pedicels and calyxes, a beautiful silver foil to the drooping maroon bells.  So is it Paracaryum or Rindera?  Both genera are rarely encountered in cultivation.  Based upon my research I determined it is a Paracaryum, and the flower color noted by the collector's was either wrong or color was more variable than known.

These days where internet-based botanizing is possible, a photo comparison between the Paracaryum and Lindera clearly show much stronger affinity to Paracaryum than on Rindera.  The most important aspect being that the flowers in Paracaryum are more completely exposed versus Lindera where the bristly hirsute or ciliolate calyxes all but conceal the flowers.  I give some photo links for further comparison.

Both scanned photos are from plants growing in my old rock garden, July 1980.

Additional links:

Rindera lanata
http://www.alpinegarden-ulster.org.uk/POM/POM_Rindera.htm

plant
http://picasaweb.google.com/Philippe.Rabaute/VoyageBotaniqueTurquie2007PhilippeRabautePierreCoulotHenriMichaud/#5313831647613740258

flowers
http://picasaweb.google.com/Philippe.Rabaute/VoyageBotaniqueTurquie2007PhilippeRabautePierreCoulotHenriMichaud/#5313831656938280530

seed pods
http://picasaweb.google.com/Philippe.Rabaute/VoyageBotaniqueTurquie2007PhilippeRabautePierreCoulotHenriMichaud/#5314169880200727202

more plant & herbarium views
http://vanherbaryum.yyu.edu.tr/flora/famgenustur/bo/ri/la/ca/index.htm

http://vanherbaryum.yyu.edu.tr/flora/famgenustur/bo/ri/la/ca/pages/Rindera%20lanata%20(LAM_)%20BUNGE%20var_%20canescens%20(A_%20DC_)%20KUSN_%20%20%20%20%20%20_jpg.htm

http://agaclar.net/galeri/showimage.php?i=27828&catid=member&imageuser=4429

http://www.henriettesherbal.com/pictures/p12/pages/rindera-lanata.htm

Rindera graeca (scroll to near bottom of gallery)
http://www.picsearch.com/info.cgi?q=Rindera&id=sHn-aaP8FN89OwwKnnkMtYPRBnDVZyQUH6jJRAQnKgo

Paracaryum racemosum (Schreber) Britten var. racemosum
http://picasaweb.google.com/Philippe.Rabaute/VoyageBotaniqueTurquie2007PhilippeRabautePierreCoulotHenriMichaud/#5312697334751280946

[Todd Boland]

Lindelofia longifolia also reaches close to 3 feet...perhaps better suited to a perennial border but it looks OK if the rockery is large enough.

I have a rock wall with super drainage and relatively little snow cover all winter...I'll try my drylanders there to see if they could be a go.  Right now the plants there are pretty basic...mainly because it is roght along the sidewalk...I don;t knwo if iI'd want to grow anything too rare there!

[Lori S.]

Right now the plants there are pretty basic...mainly because it is roght along the sidewalk...I don;t knwo if iI'd want to grow anything too rare there!

On the other hand, it will be protected by its relative obscurity.   

[Todd Boland]

Considering I live on such a busy street and there is lots of pedestrian traffic since there is a convenience store nearby, I have yet (touch wood) had a problem with people ripping up the plants along the rock wall.  I'm sure the locals would not recognize a plant as 'rare'.  I do have a Ramonda under the Potentilla at the end of the wall and so far, so good.

[Lori S.]

Yes, I know what you're saying.  We live on a relatively busy corner; the front street is a bus route, as well as the way to a little shopping mall, and there is a playground behind us down the side street.  We, unfortunately, do get a bit of what we think of as "vandalism" every year... ranging from quite innocent to intentional (though nothing really serious).  It does sometimes target showier plants, e.g. evil hellspawn child whacking off tulips with stick, young babysitter advising her juvenile charges to pick lilies, etc.. (I must have the patience of a saint, given that I have not yet installed land mines.  :)  It doesn't normally affect any of the plants that I actually prize, thankfully.  I don't expect anyone knows what any of them are anyway!

It looks like you have a very nice rock wall there.  (Not to mention an ample expanse of lawn for future projects...  )

Here is Onosma sericea stellulata, which I grew from seed years ago, and which has been hardy here.  Be careful when you do spring clean-up around Onosma - the bristly hairs on the dried leaves and stems are like cactus glochids.