Trillium germination

[RickR]

Jan, your 2011 collected Trillium kurabayashii seed have germinated!  

You were so generous that I decided to plant some, and then kept some in the moist packed bag you sent.  (Don't we all like to watch the actual germination process if we can?)  Both are sitting on the kitchen counter.  I guess I just never got around to putting them in the fridge.... Now every one in the bag is sending out a radicle!  And hopefully, the planted seeds are, too.

From what I read, most trilliums don't germinate until after a cold treatment, and then naturally go through the next season underground, and send up a leaf in the second growing season.

Now my question for you, Dave, Wim, or anyone else who might know:
how long should the seed establish its root before the next cold treatment?

If I try the "standard" 3 months warm (for root growth) and 3 months cold (in the fridge), that will take me to June 5th.  Can I shorten it any?  This scenario is from the start of actual germination rather than from planting, so I would think I could take at least a week off the warm period(?).

What do you all think?

[RickR]

It's interesting that at such an early age you can already see the initial development of the thickened rhizome that we commonly call a trillium bulb.

               

[bulborum]

Maybe this helps Rick

This is the information from Jelitto

Roland

Cold-germinaters are still referred to as frost-germinaters, although this isn't quite correct. The sowing must be kept warm (about +18 to 22°C) [about 64 to 72°F] and moist for the first 2-4 weeks. After this period the sowing must be kept at a cold temperature (between -4 and +4°C) [between 25 and 39°F] for another 4-6 weeks. Colder temperatures of -5°C [23°F] are only advantageous for most species of the Ranunculus family. It is not so important if the temperature is higher or lower during the cooling period, but the cooling period has to be prolonged because the synthesis of the germination inducer, hormonlike acid, slows down or comes to a standstill. It is beneficial to cover the sowing with snow during the cooling-period. The temperature below it usually keeps in the optimum range of -4 to 0°C [25 to 32°F]. The sowing is kept moist, and the melting snow helps to destroy the shell, which is advantageous for the germinating seedling. After this cooling-period the sowing may not be immediately exposed to high temperatures. The most effective temperatures are between +5 to 12°C [41 to 54°F], even if germination has started. The best location for this sowing, even in March, April and May, is the open field, the cold frame or a cold greenhouse.

[RickR]

Thanks, Roland.  There is some good information there.

I guess this is what I am really asking:

With hypogeal germinating Lilium spp., there is often a difference in the size of the initial bulb, depending on how long the seedling is kept at the first warm stage.  Four months instead of three months, for instance, can produce larger bulbs.

Similarly, does the thickened rhizome of a trillium seedling get significantly larger with a longer initial warm period before the seedling sends up its first leaf?

[Toole]

Jan, your 2011 collected Trillium kurabayashii seed have germinated!  

You were so generous that I decided to plant some, and then kept some in the moist packed bag you sent.  (Don't we all like to watch the actual germination process if we can?)  Both are sitting on the kitchen counter.  I guess I just never got around to putting them in the fridge.... Now every one in the bag is sending out a radicle!  And hopefully, the planted seeds are, too.

From what I read, most trilliums don't germinate until after a cold treatment, and then naturally go through the next season underground, and send up a leaf in the second growing season.

Now my question for you, Dave, Wim, or anyone else who might know:
how long should the seed establish its root before the next cold treatment?

If I try the "standard" 3 months warm (for root growth) and 3 months cold (in the fridge), that will take me to June 5th.  Can I shorten it any?  This scenario is from the start of actual germination rather than from planting, so I would think I could take at least a week off the warm period(?).

What do you all think?

Hello Rick

I know this is very unscientific but a good friend gave me a bit of advice years ago about Trillium seed sowing in NZ and that was 'you plant em, he knows when to germinate' so i just sow T.seed outside in a shade frame as soon as i receive it regardless of the time of the year .

Interestingly i also received some of Jan's T.kurabayashii seed last month,( sown straight away)--a check in the pot today and guess what ,my seed has also germinated like yours with radicles ........

Cheers Dave.

[bulborum]

Similarly, does the thickened rhizome of a trillium seedling get significantly larger with a longer initial warm period before the seedling sends up its first leaf?

I don't know Rick

Maybe I am lazy
but I let seeds go as they go
I just have a look when it is time to re-pot
sometimes after a few months
sometimes after three years
most after two years

I am not in a hurry

what I find is that fresh seeds from slow germinating seeds partly germinates
and the year after mostly the rest

Roland

[RickR]

Well, I have the seeds planted in four different pots, so maybe a little experimentation is called for.  Hopefully, I will know next season if the first leaves are significantly different in size.

[Jan Jeddeloh]

Well, the damn computer ate my first reply so let’s try again with a backup in Word.

I’m pleased to know my seed is germinating world wide-New Zealand, Belgium (personal correspondent) and the Midwest.  It’s nice to send out a batch of “happy camper” seed because the seed I sent to Belgium a year ago didn’t germinate (more on that later).

Trillium kurabayashii usually sends up a leaf the first spring and it’s a big fat leaf.  I’m not sure a longer warm period would result in a bigger rhizome since I would think the ability to photosynthesize would be more important in building the rhizome size.  But hey, this is just my guess so please experiment and report back to us.

John Gyer, a frequent Trillium-L poster and occasional NARGS author, wrote a Quarterly article some time ago advocating sowing immature trillium seed to bypass the stubborn dormancy problems trillium seed often exhibits. I know John has done most of his work with eastern Trillium since he lives on the East Coast.  I’ve found that sowing immature T. kurabayashii seed usually results in an empty pot with rotted seed.  I think this is what happened with the first batch of seed I sent to Belgium.  The seed seems to need to be very ripe ie the pods really mushy and starting to split open.  You’ll know the seed if ripe enough if the arils rot down quickly when you put the whole mess in a plastic bag.  Of course if you’re not mailing the seed somewhere you can just sow it arils and all.  That’s what I did with my original seed (got the fat, mushy seed pods at a chapter picnic) and I got great germination the following spring.

The last two years I’ve had a lousy harvest of T. kurabayashii seed due to our lousy spring/summer.  Hoping for something better next year or Southern California might start looking attractive to this webfooted Oregonian.


Jan

[Hoy]

I don't know about the fate of my  share - haven't dared to dig in my pots

[AmyO]

Oh hey!!! How can I get in on this Trillium seed sharing party??? I should have lots of  T. erectum luteum next year to share. 

[RickR]

Jan had posted her generous offer in October.  But alas, we have exhausted her supply. 
Check next year, she says:

http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=795.0

There are also selections in the NARGS seed ex.

[Tim Ingram]

Has anyone had any luck getting good seed on Trillium luteum? I have grown this for years and never had seed and assumed that more than one clone is necessary. T. kurabayashii (and also chloropetalum) do seem to produce seed on single plants, and I have also found that the former germinates very well and quickly from freshly collected seed. I have always removed the elaiosome either with a sharp knife (slow and finicky) or by soaking with dilute hydrogen peroxide as described in the Case's book. This works very well. These plants attract the attention of visitors more than any others when we have our garden open in the spring, so it's good to know that more nurserymen are raising them from seed and are prepared to grow them on in pots for sale despite the time factor.

[RickR]

After four years of flowering with no seed production, my one T. luteum produced very plump seed capsules in 2010.  Being my first experience with any trillium I cared to collect seed from, I waited for maturity with anticipation.  Alas, as is probably the first experience with every novice trillium seed collector, "disaster" hit.  Through a small hole in the side of the capsule, every single seed was remove, presumably by ants. 

2011 was a terrible year for pollination of many plants in my area, even my own crosses.  There was no seed production on T. luteum.

Regarding pollination, I do have a Trillium sessile growing 6ft away, but would such a hybrid produce such an abundance of seed?

[AmyO]

Jan had posted her generous offer in October.  But alas, we have exhausted her supply. 
Check next year, she says:

http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=795.0

There are also selections in the NARGS seed ex.

Dang!!! Well I'll have to keep my eyes open next year! And I did order a bunch from the seed-ex..so here's hoping I get my first choices!

[Madgardener]

I have been growing Trillium kurabayashii from seed for many years.  I harvest the seed as soon as the pods lose their firm feeling, if left until soft the wasps and ants take them.
I usually sow straight away, early July this year and having checked the pots today I found they had all germinated.  The pots are left uncovered and open to the weather.
My original seed came from Phil & Gwen Phillips & produced extremely dark plants with wonderful leaf markings.  Last years seedlings flowered & produced dark, deep red, dark & light pink & even white seedlings.  Are these colour forms found in the wild?

Mike