Armchair botanizing for Extreme Silene

[cohan]

Close-up of Silene variegata, a dwarf succulent-leaved species from Crete, from the Flickr photo galleries of Nick Turland.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nturland/1363389276/

Updated: an even better set of photos from "Visit West Crete" site.
This species takes the prize for one of the most desirable small rock garden Silene ever!
http://www.west-crete.com/flowers/silene_variegata.htm

Amazing plant, for sure! I wonder just how hardy 1300 to 2400 m in Crete makes it?

[McDonough]

One never knows, but some mountain plants from the region, at even lower elevations, can be hardy.  Take for example the marvelous late summer blooming (and night blooming) Cyprus endemic Saponaria cypria, found at 1350-1950 meters in the Troodos Mountains, it has been perfectly hardy outdoors for the past 10 years... see: http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=325.msg3153#msg3153

[Hoy]

One never knows, but some mountain plants from the region, at even lower elevations, can be hardy.  Take for example the marvelous late summer blooming (and night blooming) Cyprus endemic Saponaria cypria, found at 1350-1950 meters in the Troodos Mountains, it has been perfectly hardy outdoors for the past 10 years... see: http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=325.msg3153#msg3153

Troodos Mountains even have a ski resort!

[Lori S.]

Amazing plant, for sure! I wonder just how hardy 1300 to 2400 m in Crete makes it?

Within reason, of course (for example, this does not apply to tropicals  ), I think one can only be sure by actually growing the plant!  There seems to be so many exceptions to what one might expect in terms of hardiness, that only the results from trying it one's self are of much value.  (And zone ratings are almost always absolute rubbish but don't get me started on that!  )

[cohan]

Quite true, Lori-- I guess a lot of plants carry excess hardiness in their genes from past lives  We are currently z3 on the map  but I'm sure all the natives are good to z2 (which is more like our actual minimums, even if they are not common) , and probably colder..

I still don't mind seeing a zone rating if its based on temperature in habitat still not an absolute, and by no means the only factor, but its a starting point, especially for me now-- there are thousands of plants I'd love to try, so I figure I might as well start with those that at least come from someplace that gets moderately cold  eg, if I see several related species listed in Alplains catalogue, and one is zone 3 or 4, and others 6 or 7, I can start with the 3 or 4 and try others later (or wait and see how they did in your garden ).. no guarantees ever of course...

[Hoy]

I can't trust your (I mean the USDA) hardiness ratings at all! The winters here are Z8 (not the last 2 years - they have been more like Z7!) but the summers are not!

[cohan]

I can't trust your (I mean the USDA) hardiness ratings at all! The winters here are Z8 (not the last 2 years - they have been more like Z7!) but the summers are not!

Yeah, an example of why Lori points out the limited value of those ratings--all they deal with is winter minimum, no consideration of moisture, when it comes, and summer temperatures... I believe someone somewhere (Alpine-L?) mentioned the origin of the system was for rating of tree hardiness in eastern North America..
I'd rather a plant description came with some details of the climatge in habitat (which are often hard to look up independently, especially for non-populated areas) but failing such a paragraph with every entry  I'll still take a mention of the temp minimum!

[Hoy]

I'd rather a plant description came with some details of the climatge in habitat (which are often hard to look up independently, especially for non-populated areas) but failing such a paragraph with every entry  I'll still take a mention of the temp minimum!

Agree! But you know, the winter hardiness depends on summer temperature(!) - at least the temperature in fall when the hardiness develops.

[Lori S.]

Yeah, an example of why Lori points out the limited value of those ratings--all they deal with is winter minimum, no consideration of moisture, when it comes, and summer temperatures... I believe someone somewhere (Alpine-L?) mentioned the origin of the system was for rating of tree hardiness in eastern North America..

Errr, well, those are undoubtedly factors, but my actual point is that the minimum temperature tolerance is poorly understood for so many perennial species, yet these flawed zone ratings are bandied about and copied from source to source as though they have been tested and found to be infallible, when the exact opposite is true.  Zone ratings do much more "harm" than good in cold zones (don't you know that essentially all plants are "zone 6 to 9"?  ) and actually prevent people from trying plants that they could otherwise be growing successfully.  (Ugghh, enough of beating that drum for the millionth time... I told you not to get me going on this!  )

[cohan]

I'd rather a plant description came with some details of the climatge in habitat (which are often hard to look up independently, especially for non-populated areas) but failing such a paragraph with every entry  I'll still take a mention of the temp minimum!

Agree! But you know, the winter hardiness depends on summer temperature(!) - at least the temperature in fall when the hardiness develops.

I plan on growing various 'hardy' cacti, and with some of these, my summers will definitely be more of a factor (or at least as much of one!) than the winters--in this case, presumably they need the high temperatures to make enough strong growth to survive winter; fall hardening is likely an issue  as well.. I'll be aiming for a heat trapping planting for these, possibly with fall moisture covering...

[Lori S.]

Not such an "extreme" one, but nice enough to keep - Lychnis ajanensis:
   

It was grown from seed in 2008.  It is, apparently, endemic to Okhotsk-Kamchatkan Province of Russia (source: Wikipedia;   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumboreal_Region)

The plant pictured above seems to match other photos of L. ajanensis that I was able to find, but here's where it gets confusing... 

I also have the following seed-grown plant labelled as L. ajacensis... though it has a rather different habit, and more nicely marked calyces:
 

 

[Hoy]

It isn't easy to tell if they are the same, variable species or different species. But your plants certainly are different taxa!  . .  and both are handsome

[McDonough]

Not such an "extreme" one, but nice enough to keep - Lychnis ajanensis:
It was grown from seed in 2008.  It is, apparently, endemic to Okhotsk-Kamchatkan Province of Russia (source: Wikipedia;   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumboreal_Region)

 

Lori, both are nice, but they do look like different plants.  Here are some links from the same Plantarium Russia site, showing Lychnis ajanensis (syn: Silene ajanensis) from the Magadan Region (near the Sea of Okhotsk).  Your second one almost looks like Silene caroliniana.

Lychnis ajanensis (syn: Silene ajanensis), Magadan Region, Russia
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/81507.html
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/81504.html
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/view/item/23409.html

[McDonough]

A few more from the Plantarium Russia site:

Silene pygmaea, Dagestan
loose and airy, ascending stems, nodding red flowers.  I'd grow it if I had a chance ;-)
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/80166.html

Silene spergulifolia, Dagestan
charming species I'd grow in a heartbeat. Low bushy shrub-like growth, narrow thyme-like leaves, masses of white flowers and reddish calyxes.
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/76471.html
...masses of white flowers and red-veined calyxes:
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/77329.html
...this photo shows a prostrate form:
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/76449.html

Silene supina, Ukraine
interesting loose recumbent-stemmed plant, long conspicuous reddish calyxes, small cream flowers.
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/62110.html
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/62109.html
...some photos on this site show plants that look rather different:
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/22167.html
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/2940.html

Silene syreitschikowii, Crimea
similar to the preceding, low silver-leaf shrub like a lavender, racemes of creme olored blooms, usually with contrasting reddish calyxes.  Charming in some of the more dwarf forms.
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/63878.html
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/63874.html
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/63876.html
...greener, and more dwarf, thyme-like form:
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/63872.html

[Lori S.]

Silene syreitschikowii, Crimea
similar to the preceding, low silver-leaf shrub like a lavender...

Is it actually a shrub, Mark (or just "shrub-like" in habit)?  Most unusual for a Silene, if so... but then who the heck knew there were so many fascinating ones in the world?!?