Potentilla dilemma

[James McGee]

"I am distressed that you do not acknowledge that the REAL impact on our landscapes are due to other land abuses which CREATE the habitats for weeds."

I can only address so many issues at one time.  The fact is, once the ecosystems in my area have been destroyed, current knowledge indicates they will not recover completely.  This is the conclusion of researchers that have studied restoration efforts which have been continuously occurring for 50 years or longer.  Even the oldest prairie reconstruction attempts do not have the Floristic Quality Index values, the remnant dependent insects, or the microbial communities that are necessary components of the ecosystem.  This is the case even when the restoration efforts are occurring adjacent to a remnant.  Researchers have stated that sere ecosystems are succeeding towards an alternate stable state.  Although my personal observations are somewhat at odds with these results, I can say that most prairie species spread very slowly without assistance.

The irreplaceability, along with the rarity, of our local remnants makes any further loss unacceptable.  Illinois only has one tenth of one percent of its original landscape remaining.  Many of these remaining ecosystems are isolated refuges of less than 20 acres.  Most people in Illinois grow up without ever seeing an example of the presettlement vegetation.

I write the above to make people understand the importance of protecting intact ecosystems, not to discourage those who might attempt to restore areas that have been degraded.  Restoration of areas destroyed by farming or gravel mining have had great successes.  We have been able to establish nearly every plant species.  Unfortunately, we rarely achieve the abundance or quality of plant communities found in remnant ecosystems.  Also, restorations are not as ecologically resilient.  They often lose diversity over time.

I hope my writing informs people of the importance of protecting natural areas.  Let the experiences of my region be a lesson.  Do not let what happened in the Corn Belt occur where you live.

"Although we do have an abundance of weeds, practically all of which came with the Red Durum wheats brought by the 19th Century immigrants …"

It is important to differentiate between weeds and invasive species.  Local conservationists define invasive species as either introduced or native species that spread in a malignant manner.  Examples of native species that are locally considered invasive are disturbance adapted woody species that invade prairie, savannah, and oak-hickory woodlands.  Often this invasion is due to the lack of regular fire.  The USDA defines invasive species as “a species not native to the ecosystem under consideration and whose introduction causes or is likely to cause economic or environmental harm or harm to human health.”

After more thoroughly reviewing the Chicago Botanical Gardens list of invasive species, I must admit it is too extensive.

http://www.chicagobotanic.org/research/conservation/invasive/chicago/

A number of species they list as invasive do not invade natural remnant and have been shown to be outcompeted by native species in restorations.

“The most "notorious": of our local horticultural invaders are Russian Olive and Tamarisk (which I must admit, I have a grudging admiration for). …”

I am unfamiliar with your local ecosystems and therefore cannot comment on the invasiveness of the species for those areas.  However, I have heard these same remarks before.  It seems to me that people of various motivations use any small ecosystem service provided by non-native species as reason to do nothing.  I think conservationist put it best when they say, “Now I have a citation for giving up.”  I cannot stop you if you prefer to make excuses rather than face the problem.  All I can do is put my efforts toward mitigating the damage these invasive species have caused.     

“(And hope one day you will forgive me for being an unrepentent gardener who perhaps loves many weeds just a tad too much).”

I love species that are invasive too.  I just wish they had not become establish (usually with our assistance) into my local ecosystems.  Every invasive species came from someplace.  Personally, I would be happy to admire these species in their native habitat.


Sincerely,

James

[Kelaidis]

Dear James,
     I have enjoyed our exchanges a great deal: we are not so very far apart! I sometimes think the sort of heated discussions we have had must be the contemporary equivalent of those medieval arguments over how many angels fit on pin head.

     We both yearn for landscapes that are not cluttered with the effluvia of human indifference and ignorance. And that we as humans treat the landscape with sensitivity and respect. I don't know a gardener or conservationist who does not share those commitments, although the way we phrase them or our emphases may vary.

     Thanks!

[cohan]

I haven't had a chance to visit here for a while- so it was interesting to see the posting in this thread! I think I discarded (while working on general rebuilding of a 30 year overgrown rock garden) a couple of those Potentilla plants (which I'm pretty sure are P recta) but they are probably not all gone, and certainly more will come up from seed..
I'm still a bit torn about the plant-- I really do love the flowers, which are a colour unlike any of the natives, and I don't think the reports of invasiveness are from Alberta so far, rather from B.C. It seems to me its drier areas where it has been problematic (some comfort that Panayotis has not had any problems with it) and my zone just outside the foothills biome is one of the moister parts of the province outside the mountains. Also, the plants did not spread at all from my  original planting 30 years ago- the plant had died out and regrew from seeds only after I'd started re-digging...
Still not fully decided, may just stick to the native P gracilis- a more standard yellow flower, but nicer foliage!
Likely I should be more worried about large patches of tall Veronica  Geranium himalayense  and (smaller patches) Campanula rapunculoides planted by my mother!
Then what about a couple of clones of Geum--sorry Potentilla -- nepalensis I have planted- the one plant established a couple of years likely made hundreds if not thousands of seeds this year- should I be worried?
I don't care about plants that make themselves a nuisance in the garden, but my property is surrounded by semi/natural land (its all farmland around here, but much is only grazed, and there are many native species) and I worry about escapes (none so far).
In this region almost all the weeds and invasives are related to agriculture (all of the ones I know of, at least outside of towns/cities)- almost all of them come directly from agriculture (as weeds or escaped forage crops) and all are spread by agriculture- cultivation and or grazing/overgrazing.
I too have thought longingly of living someplace with a 'pure' (or nearly) flora, unpolluted by agriculture.. Whitehorse, Yukon seems like kind of a cool small city  

[Lori S.]

With the exception of Campanula rapunculoides, none of the plants you mention is invasive* or been recorded as naturalizing.  You can always check Noxious Weed and Prohibited plant lists for Alberta and for various cities, and USDA Plants to check on this.

*I find that Geranium himalayense spreads itself around a bit but not on the scale of things I'd call "invasive".

[cohan]

I feel quite sure the Geranium would take over the entire acreage give the chance..lol Its in several patches of several square metres and spreads beyond them into mowed areas, and I think seeds into the mowed area (really can't call it lawn- grasses, native plants, weeds like plantain, dandelion and clover).. worst thing is, I really don't like that electric purple colour why couldn't it be pink or white or even violet??
The thing to me that is scary about invasives is that there is little way to know until it happens-- wasn't purple loosestrife grown as an ornamental in North America for quite some time before it became invasive?
I think at least several of the spp I mentioned above have probably been grown for quite some time in farm gardens around here, and they are not evident in 'natural' areas, so you'r probably right they are not a big threat- I think I've seen the Campanula in exactly one place outside a garden near here, and it was very near a farm yard... Still, I'm not very fond of any of those, and wouldn't mind getting rid of them, or at least gradually reducing them! I've started removing spent flowering stems from the Veronica- they seem to seed quite far from the plants (at least several/maybe 10 metres)-including uncultivated soil..
There's also a large Clematis tangutica on the corner of my mom's house, but I have never seen a seedling in spite of what seems like 20-30 pounds of seed annually!

[cohan]

Just because I happend across some pics while looking for some other things, here are some of the things discussed above..
1 Potentilla nepalensis, labelled Miss Willmott, not sure if that is right- google images shows various colours under that name, I really like this orangey flower; I now also have one labelled, I think, Ron Mcbeath (sp?) with deep pink flowers;
2-6 Then what I believe to be Potentilla gracilis, growing just outside my driveway

 

     

The rather aggressive Veronica, and a couple views of Geranium himalayense

[RickR]

I grew Miss Willmott when I was a kid, maybe 16 years old.  In my hotter summers it had nice color only in cooler weather.  It was quite gangly, too.

[cohan]

I grew Miss Willmott when I was a kid, maybe 16 years old.  In my hotter summers it had nice color only in cooler weather.  It was quite gangly, too.

In theory we could have some warmer and drier summers than we have the last few years, but I'm not holding my breath...lol the plant is also in a site where it would probably always have cool feet..
Gangly for sure, which doesn't necessarily bother me-- does factor in to what should be planted near it! I have a white flowering Geranium that I think has to be moved...lol
The biggest plus of all is that it is almost in front of my  mom's house, and she especially loves the colour-- lucky accident planting it there!
I like it enough I will probably try some in other sorts of sites- maybe naturalised in open native shrubs, for example...