May 21, 2013, 01:33:21 PM
Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
1 Hour
1 Day
1 Week
1 Month
Forever
Login with username, password and session length
News
:
Click here to go to the NARGS Main Website
Home
Help
Search
Login
Register
The NARGS Forum
>
Plants and Gardens
>
Family, Genus, Species
>
9) Gentiana
>
Bottle Gentians
Pages:
1
2
3
[
1
]
2
3
Go Down
« previous
next »
Print
Author
Topic: Bottle Gentians (Read 2201 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
McDonough
The Onion Man
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Online
Posts: 2722
10K Man
Bottle Gentians
«
on:
September 01, 2010, 10:19:33 AM »
There are a number of native Gentiana species that qualify as "bottle" gentians, where the flowers barely open or don't appear to open at all.
After all of the heat and drought this 2010 summer in New England can dish out, I've observed the slow development of
Gentiana clausa alba
, unperturbed by the drought, surprising when this bottle gentian is reportedly found in moist locations and stream-sides. The foliage remained dark green, not showing any sign of scorching as so many of my plants have this season. Last year I received a seedling plant from George Newman who specializes in native North American plants, and I believe this rare white form was from seed collected in New Hampshire... I'll have to ask George, he has an encyclopedic memory with details of all the plants in his fascinating garden. Fascinating too, is that the flower bracts on G. clausa appear well before the buds, making an intriguing and curious looking posy nested on top of the enlarged terminal leaves. I like that the flowers are tinged green at the apex. I include some links showing other colors forms, the more typical blues and purples. My plant is 12" (30 cm) in flower.
Gentiana clausa - bottle gentian, blind gentian, closed gentian
http://plants.usda.gov/java/largeImage?imageID=gecl_001_ahp.tif
http://www.northcreeknurseries.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/plants.plantDetail/plant_id/482/index.htm
http://2bnthewild.com/plants/H82.htm
http://www.photographersdirect.com/buyers/stockphoto.asp?imageid=1806885
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/aYpcyQ-JiwqdnhvJcJgyVQ
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sa_young/2814721801/
USDA plant profile & distribution map
http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=GECL
Gentiana_clausa_alba_09-01-2010rs1.jpg
(64.05 KB, 756x567 - viewed 67 times.)
Gentiana_clausa_alba_09-01-2010rs3.jpg
(76.41 KB, 756x584 - viewed 58 times.)
Gentiana_clausa_alba_09-01-2010rs4.jpg
(70.12 KB, 756x567 - viewed 66 times.)
Logged
Mark McDonough
Massachusetts, USA, near the New Hampshire border USDA Zone 5
antennaria at charter.net
http://www.plantbuzz.com
Lori S.
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 2689
Re: Bottle Gentians
«
Reply #1 on:
September 01, 2010, 05:28:46 PM »
How timely!
Gentiana clausa
is in bloom here too, from seed 3(?) years ago... not native to this area, as you can see in Mark's USDA link, but a nice one for some fall colour.
gentiana clausa P1020619.JPG
(224.04 KB, 663x799 - viewed 78 times.)
gentiana clausa P1020620.JPG
(199.05 KB, 653x799 - viewed 82 times.)
Logged
Lori
Calgary, Alberta, Canada - Zone 3
-30 C to +30 C (rarely!); elevation ~1130m; annual precipitation ~40 cm
McDonough
The Onion Man
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Online
Posts: 2722
10K Man
Re: Bottle Gentians
«
Reply #2 on:
September 01, 2010, 10:43:43 PM »
Quote from: Skulski on September 01, 2010, 05:28:46 PM
How timely!
Gentiana clausa
is in bloom here too, from seed 3(?) years ago... not native to this area, as you can see in Mark's USDA link, but a nice one for some fall colour.
Nice to see the blue complement to the white
G. clausa
, such attractive plants.
There are some very similar "bottle gentians", and quite honestly I don't know how to tell them apart, in particular, how does one tell
Gentiana clausa
apart from
G. andrewsii
, and from
G. saponaria
? My Peterson guide "
A Field Guide to Wildflowers
" gives some very subtle differences in the flower structure of the three species. And then there are two other bottle types,
G. alba
, and
G. linearis
, which are more readily distinguishable.
Gentiana quinquefolia
is also listed as a bottle type, but in this species the flowers do open noticeably.
G. linearis photos:
http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?query_src=photos_index&where-taxon=Gentiana+linearis
G. alba photos:
http://wisplants.uwsp.edu/scripts/detail.asp?SpCode=GENALB
Are there good books or keys to these confusingly similar N. American bottle gentians?
«
Last Edit: September 02, 2010, 06:14:18 AM by McDonough
»
Logged
Mark McDonough
Massachusetts, USA, near the New Hampshire border USDA Zone 5
antennaria at charter.net
http://www.plantbuzz.com
Hoy
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 3522
..Always Look on the Bright Side of Life...
Re: Bottle Gentians
«
Reply #3 on:
September 02, 2010, 01:46:16 AM »
Interesting plants, but if they don't open how are they pollinated? Are they cleistogamous?
The similar plant here,
G. purpurea
, opens a little in warm weather and flies visit frequently.
Gentiana purpurea3.JPG
(190.39 KB, 671x979 - viewed 71 times.)
Logged
Trond
Rogaland, Norway - with cool, often rainy summers (29C max) and mild, often rainy winters (180 cm/year)!
McDonough
The Onion Man
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Online
Posts: 2722
10K Man
Re: Bottle Gentians
«
Reply #4 on:
September 02, 2010, 06:12:37 AM »
Quote from: Hoy on September 02, 2010, 01:46:16 AM
Interesting plants, but if they don't open how are they pollinated? Are they cleistogamous?
The similar plant here,
G. purpurea
, opens a little in warm weather and flies visit frequently.
Trond, I've been admiring
Gentiana purpurea
on some of the travelogue types of posts on SRGC, certainly qualifies as a bottle gentian, and an imposing handsome one at that. If you click on the North Creek Nurseries link in my first post above, it explains how the flowers of G. clausa are pollinated by large bees that are able to
muscle their way in
.
Logged
Mark McDonough
Massachusetts, USA, near the New Hampshire border USDA Zone 5
antennaria at charter.net
http://www.plantbuzz.com
Lori S.
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 2689
Re: Bottle Gentians
«
Reply #5 on:
September 02, 2010, 10:48:42 AM »
Quote from: McDonough on September 01, 2010, 10:43:43 PM
There are some very similar "bottle gentians", and quite honestly I don't know how to tell them apart...
Good point! I assume the plant I showed is
G. clausa
... I think that's what the seed packet claimed, but is it? I don't know for sure.
It's odd that we can use the internet to look up full descriptions of many exotic Asian plants, but that it's hard to find the same detail on North American flora.
Logged
Lori
Calgary, Alberta, Canada - Zone 3
-30 C to +30 C (rarely!); elevation ~1130m; annual precipitation ~40 cm
Todd Boland
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 1031
Knowledge is not knowledge unless it's shared
Re: Bottle Gentians
«
Reply #6 on:
September 03, 2010, 11:24:16 AM »
China has its counterpart bottles...Gentiana triflora is one and the other is Gentiana uchiyamae, shown here (at least that what the seeds came as). It also opens a little during realyy sunny, warm days. It is blooming right now.
Gentiana uchiyamae Aug 2010_1.JPG
(119.5 KB, 475x712 - viewed 63 times.)
Gentiana uchiyamae2_1.jpg
(46.8 KB, 524x641 - viewed 71 times.)
Logged
Todd Boland
St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada
Zone 5b
1800 mm precipitation per year
McDonough
The Onion Man
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Online
Posts: 2722
10K Man
Re: Bottle Gentians
«
Reply #7 on:
September 03, 2010, 11:18:26 PM »
Todd,
Gentiana uchiyamae
is very nice, I do like these bottle gentians.
Back to
Gentiana clausa
, what separates it from
G. andrewsii
, is that the petals, which are joined together near the top, have petals tips that are free (or above) of the connecting membrane. In the photo I upload, where I stretch the pleated petals open, you can see that the petals tips are well above the fringed connecting membrane. In
G. andrewsii
, the fringed or toothed connecting membrane is equal or above the petal tips.
Gentiana saponaria
has similar characterics as
G. clausa
, with the petal tips well demarcated above the fringed connecting membrane, so to tell these two apart,
G. saponaria
has much more erect upright sepals, whereas on
G. clausa
, the sepals stand horizontally or are otherwise reflexed (in my photo, you can see the reflexed or horizontally orientated sepals).
Open up the flower on
G. clausa alba
, and using a small stick to open the flower, there was lots of pollen, so I manually pollinated the flowers in case there were no bees squeezing into the flowers, but this made me think of hybridization potential
Gentiana_clausa_flower_pulled_open_09-03-2010rs1.jpg
(38.28 KB, 577x648 - viewed 83 times.)
«
Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 01:49:24 PM by McDonough
»
Logged
Mark McDonough
Massachusetts, USA, near the New Hampshire border USDA Zone 5
antennaria at charter.net
http://www.plantbuzz.com
Lori S.
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 2689
Re: Bottle Gentians
«
Reply #8 on:
September 17, 2010, 09:35:31 PM »
So, what would you say I have here then?
gentiana P1020807.JPG
(162.22 KB, 899x692 - viewed 78 times.)
gentiana P1020811.JPG
(75.89 KB, 600x397 - viewed 74 times.)
Logged
Lori
Calgary, Alberta, Canada - Zone 3
-30 C to +30 C (rarely!); elevation ~1130m; annual precipitation ~40 cm
Howey
Full Member
Offline
Posts: 160
Re: Bottle Gentians
«
Reply #9 on:
September 18, 2010, 05:51:43 AM »
I think what I have growing in the backyard is G. clausa alba - a closed white gentian. As for pollination, Hoy, I believe bumble bees do the job. Have frequently watched them wiggle into the flower and then work rather noisily inside before pushing their way back out. Bumble bees seem to be able to "bumble" in where honey bees fear to tread. Fran
Logged
Todd Boland
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 1031
Knowledge is not knowledge unless it's shared
Re: Bottle Gentians
«
Reply #10 on:
September 18, 2010, 06:34:35 PM »
I was in Ontario last weekend speaking to the Ottawa Valley and Southern Ontario Rock Garden Societies. Wjile in Ottawa I was taken to a meadow where bottle gentians, Gentiana andrewsii, where blooming. I was surprised thye were more purple than blue. The one I grew years ago must have been G. clausa as mine was deep blue.
Gentiana andrewsii.jpg
(124.43 KB, 600x481 - viewed 75 times.)
Logged
Todd Boland
St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada
Zone 5b
1800 mm precipitation per year
Lis Allison
Full Member
Offline
Posts: 102
Gardening is s-o-o-o glamorous.....
Re: Bottle Gentians
«
Reply #11 on:
September 21, 2010, 09:23:19 PM »
I'm going to try to post a picture of G. andrewsii here, just to learn how to do it! OK, mainly to learn how to do it. It also shows the different petal tips for those who asked about that. In G. clausii the tips are nice and tidy, in G. andrewsii they are a bit 'ragged' looking. BTW, I am in Ottawa too and my G. andrewsii flowers are a deep rich blue. Some red in the blue, yes, but the flowers are not purple by any means.
Gentiana.andrewsii.aug2309-22.e.jpg
(162.08 KB, 400x598 - viewed 75 times.)
Logged
Gardening on a wooded rocky ridge in the Ottawa Valley, Canada. Cold winters (-30C) and hot, humid summers. Nuts about native plants, ferns, pottery, my family, and Border Collies.
Booker
Sr. Member
Offline
Posts: 463
Re: Bottle Gentians
«
Reply #12 on:
September 21, 2010, 10:31:31 PM »
Congratulations and welcome Lis ... a beautiful photo to open with.
«
Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 08:52:50 AM by Booker
»
Logged
Cliff Booker A.K.A. Ranunculus
On the moors in Lancashire, U.K.
Usually wet, often windy, sometimes cold ... and that's just me!
McDonough
The Onion Man
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Online
Posts: 2722
10K Man
Re: Bottle Gentians
«
Reply #13 on:
September 23, 2010, 03:36:44 PM »
Sorry to be late in replying, have my nose to the grindstone working on some deadlines.
Lori, I'd say your gentian is indeed
G. clausa
.
Lis and Todd, nice photos showing
Gentiana andrewsii
for comparison, the little slightly "protruding fringe" is the key identifier. I found the following web site giving more specific information about how to tell them apart; the connecting membrane on andrewsii have tiny teeth (protruding) whereas in G. clausa the membrane has rounded lobes (not protruding).
Gentiana andrewsii - Natural Heritage Endangered Species Program, State Status in Massachusetts: Threatened
http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dfw/nhesp/species_info/nhfacts/gentiana_andrewsii.pdf
Lis and Todd, I also find it interesting, or curious, how both
G. clausa
and
andrewsii
, are missing from the more eastward Canadian provinces (New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, PEI, and Newfoundland), and in the case of
G. andrewsii
, also missing from Maine.
http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=GEAN
So, I took a little drive down to the Nashua River today, about 1-1/2 miles away, to drop off a squirrel to new environs
, and lo an behold, there were bottle gentians near the boat launch area... never noticed them before. There were mostly going over, shading to a dark purple, but a few plants still had fresh flowers of a good blue. Only
G. clausa
and
andrewsii
are possible here, and checking them through the key identifiers, I have concluded they are
G. clausa
. I was hoping they might be
G. andrewsii
, a species that is Threatened Status in Massachusetts, one that I have never seen in this State. Their were lots of plump seed pods, and because
G. clausa
is not on any watch list, I can collect some later.
Endangered Gentians, Gentian Research Network
http://gentian.rutgers.edu/endang.htm
Gentiana_clausa_tall_purplish_ones_09-23-2010rs1.jpg
(216.36 KB, 792x642 - viewed 70 times.)
Gentiana_clausa_09-23-2010rs2.jpg
(140.25 KB, 792x594 - viewed 68 times.)
Gentiana_clausa_going_over_09-23-2010rs3.jpg
(114.26 KB, 792x594 - viewed 71 times.)
Gentiana_clausa_going_over_09-23-2010rs4.jpg
(75.76 KB, 792x667 - viewed 65 times.)
«
Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 03:38:45 PM by McDonough
»
Logged
Mark McDonough
Massachusetts, USA, near the New Hampshire border USDA Zone 5
antennaria at charter.net
http://www.plantbuzz.com
Todd Boland
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 1031
Knowledge is not knowledge unless it's shared
Re: Bottle Gentians
«
Reply #14 on:
September 24, 2010, 10:13:12 AM »
We have no true gentians in Newfoundland although Gentiana nivalis does occur in northern Labrador. We do have Gentianopsis detonsa and Gentianella amarella and G. propinqua...unfortunately they are annual-biennial and very difficult in cultivation. Here is Gentianopsis detosa ssp. nesophila.
Gentianella detonsa ssp nesophila.JPG
(103.7 KB, 572x563 - viewed 69 times.)
Logged
Todd Boland
St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada
Zone 5b
1800 mm precipitation per year
Pages:
1
2
3
[
1
]
2
3
Go Up
Print
« previous
next »
Jump to:
Please select a destination:
-----------------------------
NARGS and Forum Administration
-----------------------------
=> Announcements from Moderators and Administrators
=> NARGS and Chapter Events
-----------------------------
Plants and Gardens
-----------------------------
=> General Alpines
=> Family, Genus, Species
===> 1) Anemone, Aquilegia, Delphinium, and other Ranunculaceae
===> 2) Astragalus, Oxytropis, Lupinus, and other Fabaceae
===> 3) Campanula, Codonopsis, Edrianthus, and other Campanulaceae
===> 4) Castilleja (Indian paintbrush)
===> 5) Dianthus, Lychnis, Silene and other Caryophyllaceae
===> 6) Draba, Arabis, Physaria, and other Brassicaceae
===> 7) Erigeron, Hymenoxys, Townsendia and other Asteraceae
===> 8) Eriogonum (Wild Buckwheat)
===> 9) Gentiana
===> 10) Lewisia, Claytonia, Talinum and other Portulaceae
===> 11) Penstemon and other Scrophulariaceae
===> 12) Phlox, Gilia, Polemonium and other Polemoniaceae
===> 13) Potentilla, Dryas, Geum and other Rosaceae
===> 14) Primula, Dodecatheon, Androsace and other Primulaceae
===> 15) Rhododendron, Cassiope, Vaccinium and other Ericaceae
===> 16) Salvia, Scutellaria, Teucrium, Thymus and other Lamiaceae
===> 17) Saxifraga, Heuchera and other Saxifragaceae
===> 18) Sedum, Sempervivum, Jovibara, and other Crassulaceae
=> General Forum
=> Plant Identification
=> Propagation
=> Cultural Problems
=> Bulbs
=> Woodlanders
=> Woodies
=> Bogs
=> Desert 'Alpines'
-----------------------------
Miscellaneous
-----------------------------
=> Introductions
=> Plant Travels and Excursions
=> Plant and Seed Swap
=> Other
Loading...