Cremanthodium ID

[McDonough]

Sorry I can't answer any of the questions regarding source.  I grew four species of Cremanthodium....C. arnicoides, ellisi, helianthus and delavayi.  I am thinking it is allied to arnicoides.  Here are the rather slug-eaten leaves.

Good to see the foliage, looks like it's in the right ballpark, thanks for supplying the photo.  When I saw that you listed C. helianthus, I thought maybe that would be a fit, but after finding photos in the wild in China, it's not that species either.  So, by process of elimination, it is not ellisii, helianthus, and not delavayi based on the FOC drawing showing a single-flowered species with pointed nearly sagittate leaves, leaving only C. arnicoides.

Here are some more links, the PDF describes 69 chinese Cremanthodium species!

Cremanthodium helianthus - photo gallery
http://www.cfh.ac.cn/album/ShowSpAlbum.aspx?spid=40889

Chinese Cremanthodium photo gallery, but no species names :-(
http://www.cfh.ac.cn/album/ShowSpAlbum.aspx?spid=40857

69 species of Cremanthodium described in this PDF, along with Ligularia, Senecio, a few Syneilesis, Doronicum, and related genera:
http://hua.huh.harvard.edu/china/mss/volume21/Senecioneae_DRAFT_2011-05-23.pdf

[Chris Chadwell]

It turns out that I did not take any pictures of the Inula sp. (which arrived as Cremanthodium arnicoides) at Kris Fenderson's garden.

But do have an image of an Inula sp. (which arrived as Cremanthodium arnicoides from a Seed Exchange) with a member of my Himalayan Plant Association who gardens in Alaska (see attached).

[McDonough]

It turns out that I did not take any pictures of the Inula sp. (which arrived as Cremanthodium arnicoides) at Kris Fenderson's garden.

But do have an image of an Inula sp. (which arrived as Cremanthodium arnicoides from a Seed Exchange) with a member of my Himalayan Plant Association who gardens in Alaska (see attached).

I thought that I had taken a photo of the Kris Fenderson plant too, but I did not    The Inula photo you post shows a very handsome plant. 

(ps: glad you worked out the details of uploading photos here, there are some tips in the "Announcements from Moderators and Administrators" board: http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?board=1.0)

[Todd Boland]

Great links Mark.....Ligularia are the next group I am growing...started 8 new species this year...time will tell if THEY are correctly ID'ed! The link you provided should help.

[McDonough]

Great links Mark.....Ligularia are the next group I am growing...started 8 new species this year...time will tell if THEY are correctly ID'ed! The link you provided should help.

Well, I just love a good mystery!

[Lori S.]

Hmm, I probably need to grow more Inula spp. too.  I like the drooping petals and the very elaborately fringed buds that some species have, e.g. I. orientalis; the form I grew of this also had very dark green-black buds, which was quite striking.
Chris, is the one in the photo much different than Inula helenium?

Todd, I imagine your climate would likely be ideal for Ligularia!  Not much drooping in the mid-day sun there, probably, as compared to here. 
Good link, Mark - I've never even heard of the majority of those species.

[Todd Boland]

My climate is IDEAL for Ligularia....if only I didn't have the slugs!  I can only assume slugs and snails do not occur in wild areas where Ligularia and Cremanthodium grow.....they are certainly slug fodder in my area.

[Chris Chadwell]

Todd - cannot tell if basal leaves have long winged stalks, which is characteristic of  C.arnicoides; the stems leaves become progressively smaller, more pointed and clasp the stem.  Helpful to have images of both stem and basal leaves. I attach images of what I believe to be a leaf of C.arnicoides preserved in the Kohli Memorial Herbarium of Himalayan plants.  Unfortunately, flower-colour, plant height, dimensions of foliage etc. whilst important as to garden-merit, are not particularly useful characteristics in plant-identification! Plant identification has traditionally relied heavily upon characteristics which can be examined closely on dried, pressed specimens such as numbers and shapes of floral parts - these attributes are often not detectable from most photos taken (however beautiful the image may be). Some digital cameras can now record such detail but such shots have limited appeal!!

Have added images of flowering specimens of C.ellisii  and C.decaisnei.  Shall post some images of Himalayan Inulas incl. I.racemosa plus Ligularias incl. the magnificent Ligularia amplexicaulis (which typically grows in the shade of large boulders, so perhaps, despite its size, qualifies as a 'rock-garden' specimen).  Must return to preparing my August Himalayan Plant Association Journal before I depart for this year's expedition to 'Little Tibet'........