Sempervivum

[Lori S.]

Echoing what has gone before, welcome to the site, Jim! 
I agree, Rick, 'Fame Monstrose' is much nicer than 'Oddity' - the coloration makes it quite interesting. 

[IMYoung]

There is indeed a cultivar S. 'Fame'

 As to the odd offspring, that is a matter of some mystery.... firstly, is it really Montrose or is this a typo for Monstrose?
Certainly the monstrose epithet is applicable to this sport of 'Fame' but I have found a reference to  'Fame Montrose' being  having been "Hybridised" by  NICHOLAS MOORE (UK), 1962

 Montrose is a Scottish coastal town and also the name of an old title in the peerage - Duke of Montrose so it may have been a little joke on the part of the raiser .... we may never know 

[McKenney]

Thanks for the replies, everyone, and thanks, too, for the welcome. For now I'll stick to 'Fame Montrose' or maybe  " 'Fame Montrose', the monstrous sport of 'Fame' "

I've tried to pull back from participation in the on-line forums because they were (very pleasantly) eating up my life. On top of that, a series of big changes in my garden has left me without much of a garden to speak of. About three years ago things began to fall apart; at first I neglected the little things, then a hurricane took down the pergola (actually a storm took it down first, then no sooner did I get it back up and the hurricane took it down again) , then it was necessary to remove an enormous tree - the place still looks more like a construction site than a garden.

And so while the rest of you are issuing gracious invitations to "come see the garden" I'm dreading the phone calls and the need to explain, again, that my garden is not yet ready for visitors. I'm trying to focus my time and energy into getting the garden back into shape. That means for now a severe cut back in time spent on-line - and it also means (or so he says) that he will not be acquiring lots of new plants this year -well, maybe a few more.

About a year and a half ago my browser spontaneously started to block me from the SRGC site. If I switched to another browser I was able to access the site without a problem. But at the time I did not want to permanently switch browsers, and so I've got a lot of catching up to do at that wonderful site.

To add to my woes (as if this never ending winter  were not woe enough) my computer showed signs of dying in January. It was well into February before I began to take action, and the new box did not arrive until mid-March. Now I'm dealing with all the little bothers which arise when one switches operating systems. That resolution to not buy lots of new plants this year will be easy to follow because all the plant money went for the new computer.

Little by little I'm getting closer to where I want to be. But until I get the garden under control, my time on the forums will be limited.

Thanks again, everyone.   

[Jeremy]

Hello All,
Just read the entire thread, having recently become more interested in Semps, in part being inspired by this photo I came across in the Galleries. I love the massed effect. I'll be ordering from Squaw Mountain Gardens (yes, Mark, they are still in business) because they send a hen (or two) and as many as five chicks for the money, which is usually $3.35, and they have a large selection and good photos. They ship bare-root.

They have S. ciliosum but not var. borisii, that seems hard to find. A seller on eBay has it and they seem like a good source for plants, but they charge $3.45 plus $5.25 s&h for a hen in a pot, and that seems high. They carry 'Fame Monstrose' (sic) and have a great photo here: http://cgi.ebay.com/Fame-Monstrose-SEMPERVIVUM-HENS-CHICKS-/120706752093?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c1aaede5d 

So I'm wondering, is var borisii markedly different from the plain species?

Can anyone recommend varieties that are good or more attractive spreaders? Of course I appreciate the individual rosettes, but right now I'd like to experiment with masses of them, even is they're very small masses to begin with.

[McDonough]

Maggi; thanks for the possibilities on the Fame names... I wonder if there is indeed both a 'Fame Montrose' and a 'Fame Monstrose'?
'Fame Montrose'
http://www.sbohio.com/Photos.php?view=preview&category=16&image=130
'Fame Monstrose'  (other monstrose forms, looking very different from each other, go under the same name, see one more below).
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b11/wood11/Sempervivums/April2008146Small.jpg
It's been so many years since Nicholas Moore's and David Ford's profuse introductions of delightful semp cultivars, I fear that some of the ensuing confusion may never be straightened out.

Jim, glad to see you over here on NARGS Forum... it's been relatively quite on Alpine-L, and very quite (surprisingly) on Pizza-L , so I'm glad to made the jump to forumville.

Jeremy, your semp planting is picture prefect, exactly the way semps show off best, stitching together rocks with the neat and colorful rosettes!  Inspiring. Maybe bring some to the plant and seedlings sales at NE NARGS meetings  Now that I'm back to work (although at a rather reduced salary), I'm burning up with plant-buying fever, but still must reign in these impulses, although semps are so inexpensive that I might just place an order with Squaw Mountain.

Regarding Sempervivum ciliosum var. borisii, in the Sempervivum & Jovibarba Handbook by Peter Mitchell describes var. borisii "Found growing at Pancerevo, Bulgaria... differs from the species in having much longer hairs making the rosettes appear almost white, more so when grown fully exposed".

Recommend varieties that are attractive spreaders:  there are so many, including species like erythraeum, pittonii, zeleborii, many others.  For a unique color, there is nothing quite like S. 'Nouveau Pastel' which in summer turns a caramel milk chocolate color, and it has tight, neat spreading habit (see photo of it in my round planter, earlier in this topic).  Remind me, and I'll bring a couple rosettes for you at a chapter meeting.  If one likes the ciliate types, like S. ciliosum var. borisii, there are a whole series of hybrids with it that are really choice, here's a few:

Semp 'Raspberry Ice'
http://www.sedumphotos.net/v/semps-nr/Sempervivum+Raspberry+Ice.jpg.html
Semp. 'Georgette'
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/Crazy_Gardener/sempervivums/014.jpg
Semp. 'Ginnie's Delight'
http://www.sedumphotos.net/v/semps-fm/Sempervivum+Ginnie_s+Delight.jpg.html
Semp 'Shirley's Joy'
http://www.sedumphotos.net/v/semps-sz/Sempervivum+Shirleys+Joy.jpg.html
Semp 'Silver Thaw'
http://www.sedumphotos.net/v/semps-sz/Sempervivum+Silver+Thaw.jpg.html

And, a couple more 'Fame' photos:
Semp 'Fame' (1)
http://www.sedumphotos.net/v/semps-fm/Sempervivum+Fame+_1_.jpg.html
...listed as Semp 'Fame' (2) (a thickened leaf monstrose form), can also be seen in the previous photo.  This looks very different than the quilled-leaf form that Jim McKenney shows.
http://www.sedumphotos.net/v/semps-fm/Sempervivum+Fame+_2_.jpg.html

[McDonough]

Spring color is starting to show on some of the semps.  Last summer I planted a low dish-shaped planter with sempervivums and our native stone (go back to page 3 of this thread), essentially rescuing some semps and jovibarbas that were nearly lost to neglect and becoming swamped in moss.  The transplanted rosettes were all undersized, but already they are looking much better.

On the left is Jovibarba heuffelii 'Gold Bug', one of the more unusual and bright colored cultivars.  On the right is another view showing 'Gold Bug' at the top, S. zeleborii on the right, and in the forefront is S. 'More Honey', an apt name for a lovely compact cultivar that goes through many color phases.

[McDonough]

An update on my semp planter, the season is progressing well, and semps and jovibarbas are coloring strongly, the rosettes now expanding and opening up, the chicks just starting.




My wheelbarrow planter is looking good too, although I have too many red-leaf types planted, needs better color variety, so I'm going down to a local nursery tomorrow that typically has a good selection of semps, a few Rosularia, and some hardy "mesembs".

[Hoy]

Mark, the red-leaved ones contrast very nicely with the rocks.

[Lori S.]

Both are looking great, Mark!  

An ambulatory planting!      Excellent concept!  

I'll keep an eye out for 'Gold Bug'.   I've never seen one like that - very nice!

[RickR]

Sempervivum octopodes var. apetalum - The name is an apropos description, as its stolons are very long (5+ inches on a vigorous plant) before it sets its new babies.  I've had the fingers reach out over two pots before depositing its offspring in the third.   You can imagine how a single rosette with these long "tentacles" would look very much like an octopus.

This is a December photo:

              

I am not always a fan of green flowers, but I do like this one.  Flowering now:

              

[Lori S.]

I like that one too.  That's an amazingly early bloom, or is your season that different from here?

[RickR]

It is very early, but that is normal for the species according to the literature.  The next sempervivum to bloom that I have(had) is another ciliate type, 'Maigret', and it will be another week and a half to two weeks yet.  (I donated that 5 inch potful to the Chapter sale.) 

The biggest difference, I think, between our climate timing is that we have a very compressed spring, and leap right into summer quickly.  Three days ago we had a 101 F day!  Most years, we don't even reach 100 degrees all summer long.  It has changed the growth pattern of several plants.  Lilium szovitsianum infolorescence are very compact and only half as big as they should be, but still will the same number of flowers.

[Hoy]

 

The biggest difference, I think, between our climate timing is that we have a very compressed spring, and leap right into summer quickly.  Three days ago we had a 101 F day!  Most years, we don't even reach 100 degrees all summer long.  It has changed the growth pattern of several plants.  Lilium szovitsianum infolorescence are very compact and only half as big as they should be, but still will the same number of flowers.

We have prolonged springs! They start in February and last to June
101F  We'll never experience that here (at the coast where I live). If we hit 85F that would be front page stuff.

[Lori S.]

I see.  Yeah, it doesn't reach 100 deg F here until.... err, well, never in recorded history actually.  

Glad to hear your lily will still bloom well despite the hot spring.

[McDonough]

Sempervivum octopodes var. apetalum - The name is an apropos description, as its stolons are very long (5+ inches on a vigorous plant) before it sets its new babies.  I've had the fingers reach out over two pots before depositing its offspring in the third.   You can imagine how a single rosette with these long "tentacles" would look very much like an octopus.

I am not always a fan of green flowers, but I do like this one.  Flowering now:

A species not often seen, I too like S. octopodes, I used to grow it in the days of having a bigger semp collection. Typically I prefer semps with short stolons so that they build into tight mats, but this one makes such a mass of criss-crossing stolons and chicks, that it visually fun. Good cilia too, I'm a fan of ciliolate semps. Google this semp and you'll see lots of good images.

I wonder however about the var. apetalum part, as the variety apetalum "differs from the type mainly by the absence of petals and stamens, also having more numerous sepals".  There are a couple good links that describe this species in the wild, as well as describe the variety.  My guess is, much of what goes around as var. apetalum is actually the type species S. octopodes.

Sempervivum octopodes on Mt. Pelister, Macedonia
http://stalikez.info/fsm/semp/site/octo_gb.php

http://www.deeproot.co.uk/pbo/plantdetail.php?plantname=Sempervivum+octopodes+var6I92E+apetalum

So far as early bloom on semps, it's not unusually early in this area; with some moisture and warm to hot weather they surge into bloom.  Here's one that I lost the label on (might be S. 'Maigret') that is nearly in bloom, taken on June 6, 2011, nearly a week ago.