Jeffersonia

[McDonough]

I see you used J. dipylla as the pod parent, Mark.  Did you also do the reciprocal cross?  I only did J. dubia x J. diphylla, but left open pollinated pods attached on the same plant.  I decided I didn't want the ants eyeing my prize pods as the only ones available for ravaging.  This way, if I miss the initial ripening, there is a good chance my special pods will be left alone long enough for me to harvest them.

Yup, I tried the cross both ways... anxiously awaiting seed pods to ripen.  Meanwhile I've been very busy with trying to stay ahead of ripening Epimedium seed.  I used approx. 25 different epimediums on which I hand pollinated each and every flower over a period of weeks, plus I'm sowing seed of some open-pollinated varieties I'm interested in, as they will hybridize with their eppie neighbors.  It's like shucking peas in miniature, squeezing out the little green bean-like seeds.  Have to cover the seed flats with fine wire mesh, as any flat left out becomes prime romping digging grounds for chipmunks.  After sowing my first 6 flats, intending on protecting the flats the following day... too late, chipmunks already went crazy with digging them up! I anticipate similar sowing process for the Jeffersonia, direct fresh sowing of seed into peat flats, which will remain shaded and kept mildly moist all summer and left out all winter, hopefully for spring germination.

[McDonough]

Seed pods on Jeffersonia dubia started shedding today, time to harvest and sow.

[McDonough]

Seed of my attempted Jeffersonia diphylla x dubia cross were harvested and sown on May 30, 2010 (see first photo).  

Interestingly, seed of regular Jeffersonia diphylla down in the wild shady woodland part of my property only just ripened today, fully 5 weeks later!  Photos 2-4 show the seed harvest which is being sent to seed purveyor Kristl Walek in Canada.  There is nothing easier (and more fun) than the "pop and pour" seed cleaning on Jeffersonia.  The seeds cannot be dried out, so they will be packed in barely moist vermiculite in a plastic zip-lock bag.

[Hoy]

You give your seeds a worthy start, Mark, feeding them with chocolate cake!

[RickR]

Really nice plump pods, Mark. And gosh, there is enough to eat (if they were edible)!  I hadn't even thought of chocolate cake, LOL, but they remind me of wheat berries.

I had done three clean crosses of J. dubia x J. diphylla, with the stigma protected from before the petals opened and after hand pollination.  As what seems to often happen, I was watching, waiting, watching, waiting ... checking every day, and then some urgency comes about, and I don't check for several days.  Two of the pods had opened and released all their seed.   Just yesterday, I had checked the third, gently squeezing to see if it would pop.  Not yet.

But today it did and below is the result: three "seeds." 
-- One small, flat (empty) and off color.
-- One small, fairly plump, but obviously not developed as it should be.
-- One normal size, and looking very viable!  A fitting Birthday present, as this is mine and Donald Duck's special day.

Maybe I didn't have to wait until the pod pops with a squeeze.  It had already turned whitish for several days.  What do you think, Mark (or anyone)?

[McDonough]

First of all, Happy Birthday!  Mine is coming up this Sunday, yay geminis.

Too bad Rick, on missing most the seed; hate when that happens.  The pods on Jeffersonia don't look hardly any different when they're approaching readiness (turning whitish) and when they are ready.  I've been going out every day for the last two weeks, giving the pods a gentle squeeze near the top, and just three days ago, a couple gave a slight pop and the seam between the "lid" and main body of the pod separated... I could see the browning seeds inside.  I left them a few more days, checking each morning, but this morning when trying my second test for readiness; a slight bend on the pod, the pods readily detached when barely touched, so all seed was harvested.  However, I could have harvested the seed sooner, when the lid seam on one or two pods pops under gentle pressure.

I was similarly waiting on Jeffersonia dubia seed (regular open-pollinated seed), and dang these things suddenly ripen and start spilling without much warning, must have missed 30-40% of the pods, but still collected enough to sow a 3' x 4' patch in the garden for a lollapalooza of seedlings next spring, if the chipmunks, squirrels, and mice don't get them first.

Never having grown Iris cristata from seed, I have been checking developing pods every few days by picking a green pod and breaking it in half... the green pods don't look very different than 4 weeks ago, but today the seed looks like it is now firm enough and viable.  And with Iris koreana seed I showed on another thread, the ready pods are very green... the only way to tell for readiness is size (they get big) and sampling one, breaking it in half to see what the seeds looks like inside.  I believe I have some Trillium seed ready too... a friend of mine who grows lots of trillium from seed with high germination, tells me to harvest before they are visibly ripe and spilling... I guess it requires a knack of knowing when such things are ready... again, the benefits of being unemployed is having time to putter around in the garden every day.

[Hoy]

-- One normal size, and looking very viable!  A fitting Birthday present, as this is mine and Donald Duck's special day.

Happy birthday, Rick!

[RickR]

Thanks for the well wishes, Trond and Mark!

Mark, neither my J. diphylla or J. dubia pods ever detach from the stem.  As they open, the stems bend at the base, allowing each stem and pod to lay horizontally on the ground.

I lost my Trillium luteum seed last year by waiting too long.  The pod was so plump and promising, but one day I went out and a hole had been cut in the pod wall, and every seed removed.

I have always waited for iris pods to change color and begin to crack before harvesting.  Never had a problem with seed theft.  Should I be gathering earlier?  Is there a distinction between beardless and bearded iris n this respect?

[McDonough]

I have always waited for iris pods to change color and begin to crack before harvesting.  Never had a problem with seed theft.  Should I be gathering earlier?  Is there a distinction between beardless and bearded iris n this respect?

I think the method of harvesting Iris seed can be different depending on species and on section within the genus.  For dwarf bearded Iris, like the two fat pods I have on I. suaveolens, I'll let the pods crack open.  On Iris koreana and henryi, in years past I never got seed... waited too long and something always got to them first, the seeds are ripe and ready when the pods are green, so this is the first year I got lots of seed on both and sowed them straight away.  Now I'm still testing Iris cristata pods... lots of plump pods, but its a learning experience for me, I have never collected seed on I. cristata varieties before, never a need because they're so easy to just divide up... but now being interesting in hybrid variations, I want to try sowing and germinating the seed.  Tested the pods again today, they're close to ready, but I'm still waiting a few more days.

[McDonough]

I recently visited the garden of George Newman in southern New Hampshire, an extensive naturalistic garden and haven for approximately 800 species of native plants.  There were dozens of large patches of Jeffersonia diphylla throughout his woodlands, each patch 9' (3 meters) or more across.  It turns out, there were colonies representing two leaf forms, both from seed he collected near Syracuse, New York, many years ago.  Unfortunately, I did not get photos of his more predominant form, a low growing one a foot tall or less, with rather smallish saw-tooth paired leaves... cute and different from my robust plants that can be 2' tall (or more) x a 2-1/2' spread (60 cm x 75 cm wide) in mature clumps.

What really caught my eye, was a second leaf form, just a bit taller, with strongly 3-lobed leaves, of with the top lobes on the paired leaflets overlap, giving a rather distinct look.  I uploaded 3 photos showing this leaf form.  Excuse the darkness of the photos, the skies were heavy with thick clouds and rain.  Most seed pods had been broken into by animals that apparently eat the pods, but I was allowed to harvest any pods intact, of which there were several pods from each form.  It'll be interesting to increase one's gene pool of this unique and lovely wildflower.

[RickR]

Wow, Mark, that's pretty spectacular!

[Hoy]

2' tall? My Jeffersonia never exceeds 1/2'!
These leaves are very different from anything I have seen (but I haven't seen much of Jeffersonia!). It seems to be moist where they grow?

[McDonough]

2' tall? My Jeffersonia never exceeds 1/2'!
These leaves are very different from anything I have seen (but I haven't seen much of Jeffersonia!). It seems to be moist where they grow?

It was very moist (wet in places) in George Newman's garden, yet his Jeffersonia clones only reached 12" or so.  My plant that reaches 24" tall is growing in dry open woodland under moisture-wicking sugar maples.  There is lots of genetic differences in leaf size, shape, and plant height; little has been done about selecting different forms although I know of one start-up nursery that has two J. diphylla selections on their list (but because their list was "provisional" or a preview, I'm not allowed to divulge).

[Hoy]

It was very moist (wet in places) in George Newman's garden, yet his Jeffersonia clones only reached 12" or so.  My plant that reaches 24" tall is growing in dry open woodland under moisture-wicking sugar maples.  There is lots of genetic differences in leaf size, shape, and plant height; little has been done about selecting different forms although I know of one start-up nursery that has two J. diphylla selections on their list (but because their list was "provisional" or a preview, I'm not allowed to divulge).

Interresting! I have always thought of Jeffersonia as rather small plants with size like Hepaticas!

[McDonough]

I have received fresh seed of the white form of Jeffersonia dubia, which is being grown and shown in the UK, and with luck, I'll get germination and in a few years have this gorgeous white form here in the USA.

http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5303.0;attach=213153;image