Thistles

[McGregor]

There are so many species from such a lot of genera that I thought I'd start a board that was more general - Panayoti and others have been rapping on spiny plants on the Cactus discussions and I love pricklies (although Monica doesn't so I have to keep them out of touch with one another) but above all I think thistles of all sorts are the great gems. So here's a starter pack from northern Morocco. IDs are sometimes uncertain but I think they are just so good.

[McDonough]

Beautiful architectural form on this spiny creatures; the closeup photo of Cynara shows such playful and colorful construction.  I could almost make an exception on my "no-spiny-or-thorny-plants-in-my-garden" rule to grow an Eryngium like that; I wonder what species it is.  Echinops are a fairly standard nursery offering here so far as perennials go; not sure what species your photo represents, but it is a beauty.  As far as I'm aware, the Echinops cultivars sold as perennials are not prone to invasiveness.

One of the worst invasive pests here is Cirsium vulgare or Bull Thistle... I dig them out whenever I see them.  The silky fluffy seed parachutes are a most effective means of seed dispersal as they slowly float away, perhaps for miles, in the slightest breeze.
http://www.invasive.org/species/subject.cfm?sub=3393

Googling Cynara, that's an interesting family... from the edible Globe Artichoke to several species that get used in the cheese-making process, as well as the customary invasive species, like C. cardunculus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynara

Malcolm, are all of these photographed in the wild?  And if so, where?

[Hoy]

If you don't like spines you can have them like this. I found it high up in Turkey. The Echinops is also from Turkey, a small island in Lake Van (an interesting salt lake in eastern Turkey).

[McGregor]

Hoy

Love the Carduus - a wonderful rosette although I'm afraid that the lack of prickles is a bit disappointing for me - a bit like a non-alcoholic Bloody Mary. And the Echinops is great - Lake Van - that's a place I have on my list.

[Lori S.]

Trond, I wonder if the first might possibly be a Carduncellus?  (It's rather reminiscent of Carduncellus pinnatus, which I grow).
For comparison:
http://www.nargs.org/nargswiki/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=698

[McGregor]

Mark

All the photographs were taken in northern Morocco around the Rif mountains from just south of Tetouan eastwards as far as Taza.

and here is another one from the Taza area that I haven't got a genus for - if anyone can help

[McGregor]

Lori

That's brilliant - it looks like the picture I've just posted might be your Carduncellus which is in the north Moroccan flora. Thanks.

But your querying of Trond's Carduus made me wonder about it being an Atractylis species.

[McDonough]

That's brilliant - it looks like the picture I've just posted might be your Carduncellus which is in the north Moroccan flora. Thanks.
But your querying of Trond's Carduus made me wonder about it being an Atractylis species.

I remember when I subscribed to the MacPhail & Watson expedition to Turkey, one of the goal plants was Echinops emiliae, for which I received seed but no germination

There are other possibilities too, Jurinea comes to mind.  One introduced by Mac&W is Jurinella moschus ssp. pinnatisectus, I believe this is still in cultivation.  Just did some armchair botanizing to look as a few more of the fantastic sea urchin dwarf thistles, even Centaurea comes to mind.  Here are some links, even including a couple more compact Carduus species:

Jurinea humilis
http://www.vidasilvestreiberica.org/es/content/jurinea-humilis
http://tolweb.org/onlinecontributors/app?page=ViewImageData&service=external&sp=35035
Gallery
http://sophy.u-3mrs.fr/photohtm/SI986.HTM

Jurinea subacaulis
http://www.skalnicky.cz/jpeg/Jurinea%20subacaulis.jpg

Jurinea cadmea
http://www.peterkornstradgard.se/bilder_06/jurinea_cadmea.jpg

Carduus aurosicus (most are tall, here's a couple that are more compact)
http://sophy.u-3mrs.fr/photohtm/SI524.HTM

Carduus carlinoides
http://sophy.u-3mrs.fr/photohtm/SI30015.HTM

Centaurea calcitrapa
http://sophy.u-3mrs.fr/photohtm/SI572.HTM

[Hoy]

You got me think! I have done a little "research" and Jurinella moschus ssp pinnatisecta looks very similar. (I consulted "The most beautiful flowers of Turkey" of Erdogan Tekin.)
Unfortunately I found no ripe seeds (It is from 3000m and probably hardy at least in a dry climate.)

[McDonough]

Jurinella moschus ssp. pinnatisecta
http://www.biologie.uni-ulm.de/fgag/Bilder/Jurinella/pages/Jurinella%20moschus%2030.04.2003.htm
http://photos.v-d-brink.eu/Flora-and-Fauna/Asia/Turkey-the-Northeastern-part/10572637_DEEDv#734511763_7tt3F
http://photos.v-d-brink.eu/Flora-and-Fauna/Asia/Turkey-the-Northeastern-part/10572637_DEEDv#734511859_FAN8F

[Hoy]

Well, Mark, you are not convinced? The picture in my flora is not quite like those you show, and I don't know what's correct. It is not easy to determine a species from pictures only anyway.

Here's another I haven't name for. Suggestions? (It is from Mt Kenya)

[Todd Boland]

Trond, that is one scary thistle, whatever it is!

[McDonough]

Well, Mark, you are not convinced? The picture in my flora is not quite like those you show, and I don't know what's correct. It is not easy to determine a species from pictures only anyway.

Here's another I haven't name for. Suggestions? (It is from Mt Kenya)

Sorry Trond, I didn't give any context to my links.  I believe your plant (Carduus sp?.JPG) is Jurinea or Jurinella and not a true thistle or Carduus species.  A couple of the links I gave show Jurinella moschus, not ssp. pinnatisecta.  There are several subspecies, it is a highly variable plant... there were some photos I found that show Jurinella moschus with entire, oval leaves, looking very different than the dissected leaf types.  And there are other species too.  In my opinion, the foliage tells me it is Jurinea or Jurinella.

As to your other thistle up on Mt. Kenya, that is a vicious bad boy isn't it?  Did a google search and the information points to it being a Carduus.  Here's a link, not sure if there is more than one species of Carduus up there:
http://wapedia.mobi/en/Natural_history_of_Mount_Kenya

"There are three genera of giant rosette plants; Carduus, Senecio and Lobelia. Carduus keniensis, the giant thistle, is endemic to Mount Kenya"

[McGregor]

Trond - that really is a great thistle and there is obviously something else making some big rosettes all over the slope. Gigantism is a interesting high altitude alternative to being small like most of the plants we grow in the rock garden.

[McDonough]

Mark

All the photographs were taken in northern Morocco around the Rif mountains from just south of Tetouan eastwards as far as Taza.
and here is another one from the Taza area that I haven't got a genus for - if anyone can help

Your dwarf rosette thistle from Taza area is a beauty, but I'm afarid I can't be of much help to ID it.  Just spent some time trying to find flora information on Morocco, and there isn't much out there.  As a consolation, I harvested some interesting photo links of prickly spiny stuff.  I recommend putting your goggles on NOW: 

Carlina sp.
http://apl385.com/leutasch/Carline%20Thistle%20carlina%20sp.jpg

Carlina gummifera
http://www.exploringkatharo.com/largepics/Carlina%20gummifera.jpg

Centaurea raphanina ssp. raphanina
http://www.exploringkatharo.com/largepics/Centaurea%20raphanina%20ssp.%20raphanina.jpg

Centaurea raphanina
http://www.stridvall.se/flowers/gallery/Asteraceae_2/AAAA9036
http://www.stridvall.se/flowers/gallery/Asteraceae_2/AAAA9032

Carduncellus monspeliensium
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Carduncellus_monspeliensium_01.JPG

And some particularly vicious pointy plants just for Malcolm 

Carlina curetum
http://www.exploringkatharo.com/largepics/Carlina%20curetum%20ssp.%20curetum.jpg

Centaurea benedicta
http://www.exploringkatharo.com/largepics/Centaurea%20benedicta.jpg

Centaurea calcitrapa ssp. calcitrapa
http://www.exploringkatharo.com/largepics/Centaurea%20calcitrapa%20ssp.%20calcitrapa.jpg

Centaurea idaea
http://www.exploringkatharo.com/largepics/Centaurea%20idaea.jpg

Centaurea hyalolepis
http://www.stridvall.se/flowers/gallery/Asteraceae_2/719_40

Cirsium creticum ssp. dictaeum
http://www.exploringkatharo.com/largepics/Cirsium%20creticum%20ssp.%20dictaeum.jpg

Cynara cardunculus
http://www.stridvall.se/flowers/gallery/Asteraceae_2/426_28

Notobasis syriaca
http://www.stridvall.se/flowers/gallery/Asteraceae_2/289_33

Ptilostemon afer
http://www.stridvall.se/flowers/gallery/Asteraceae_1/330_35

...wouldn't want to traverse this meadow...Carduus carlinoides
http://www.stridvall.se/flowers/gallery/Asteraceae_1/257_32