Seed starting chronicles 2013

[Gene Mirro]

Gene, did you plant the seeds rather deeply?

No, I covered the seeds with just a dusting of potting mix.  I germinated them under a propagation dome, under lights at 60F.  Always the same old story, right?

They are native to southern California, but they are hardy down to 15F here.  If you don't abuse them, Dodecatheons will hang around for 10 - 20 years.

[Lori S.]

Townsendia condensata germinated in 3 days at room temp.
Trifolium dasyphyllum germinated 3 days at room temp after scarifying.

[cohan]

David, as we discussed somewhere else, Kristl says D pulchellum is a warm germinator, but as Gene notes, maybe not from all populations (which then suggests those populations may not really be one species! Others vary..
D pulchellum is not really summer dormant here- nothing native that I can think of offhand is- summer just isn't long enough to bother, plus midsummer is when the rain comes! After that, fall isn't far away, so the most anything could have time for is an early fall dormancy! Seriously, though, I think the Dodecatheon do die back in late summer sometime (I can't remember for sure now if any had leaves still when I was collecting seed)- but early frosts are only a few weeks away by then...

[Lori S.]

I grow Dodecatheon meadia and it goes dormant in summer...  though since it's not native to the west, the observation may not add much to your speculation, Cohan.

More germination notes...
Oxyria digyna germinated in 8 days at room temperature; a bit of locally wild-collected seed.
Salvia nutans germinated in 4 days at room temp.

Nepeta longibracteata also germinated in 4 days at room temp.
http://www.butbn.cas.cz/ladakh/fotky/flora/screes/Nepeta_longibracteata1.jpg

I'm not holding out much hope for Townsendia condensata 'Cottonballs' from the SRGC seedex... no sign of germination (though the other pot of T. condensata germinated in 3 days).  The material in the seed packet looked like a few bits of chaff... oh, well.

[GreenRoofer]

I absolutely agree that legginess is from low light, but movement stimulates stem thickening, I will also apically prune leggy plants to encourage basal growth. What it really comes down to, is that I'm trying to squeeze too many plants under a grow light. I figure 12 hours a day of 120 watts probably won't be cheap. What photoperiods do you guys prop under?

[Gene Mirro]

I run my lights for 12 to 14 hours a day, but it's not based on any scientific reason.  

If you figure out your kilowatt-hours of electrical usage per month, you will be able to figure out the cost.  For example, if you are running 120 watts total lamp power:
120 watts * 0.001 kw/watt = 0.12 kw.  
12 hours/day * 30 days/month = 360 hours/month.  
So your kilowatt-hours are 0.12 kw * 360 hours/month = 43.2 kw-hours/month.  
Now find out what your electric rate is, say 10 cents per kw-hr.  
So your cost is 43.2 kw-hours/month * $0.10/kw-hour = $4.32/month.

If your light setup is in a heated area of the house, almost all of that energy will help to heat the house.  So your additional energy cost to run the lights is almost nothing.

[Gene Mirro]

Dodecatheon dormancy:  we have dry summers here, and all Dodecatheons go dormant if you don't irrigate.  I grow clevelandii v. insulare, hendersonii, jeffreyi, meadia, and pulchellum.  In the high mountains, jeffreyi barely has time to set seed, so it doesn't have a summer dormancy. 

[cohan]

Is anyone here using the high output T5 flurorescents? I've read about them lots and have cactus and succulent friends using them with great results- far more light output than regular fluoros -even c+s requiring intense light do well, plants do not have to be a couple of inches from the lights as with regular fluoros, and relatively energy efficient. More expensive to buy though! but one friend bought hers as simple hardware without the fancy reflectors you will see in aquarium or hydroponics shops, set up her own reflective apparatus and paid much much less..

[RickR]

I hadn't even heard of high output T5s until a few weeks ago.  I use regular T5 28w.

Lori, thanks for being thorough and consistent with your germination info.  You know I am recording it .
And thanks for the link of Nepeta longibracteata.  What a cool plant!

[Gene Mirro]

I use the old-fashioned T12 cool white lamps because I have a lot of lamps and fixtures that are still in good shape.  This is what tomatoes and peppers look like under T12s:



T5s are more efficient, but T12s do a perfectly good job.  The side reflectors really help with plants that need a lot of light, especially big plants like this.

[cohan]

A lot of people have grown cacti and succulents under T12s or the slightly more efficient T8s (which is what I have now) permanently for many years, but high output T5s are a lot better for light intensity. It depends a lot on what you are growing and for how long, how many uints you want to install etc. Contrary to what one may think, not all C+S for example actually need the most extreme light exposure, since they may grow sheltered by bushes, rocks etc in nature, but there are those plants that really do need maximum exposure (some caudiciforms for example) that just aren't easily grown under the old shoplights.
Of course we're really just talking about seedlings here, and if they etiolate a bit, it can usually be rectified when they go outside.. I am more interested in better light for some of my permanent indoor plants- especially winter growing South African bulbs!

[Lori S.]

My fluorescent lights are T12's that are on for 14 hours per day on a timer.  The lights themselves appear to be the same as what Gene is using... 4 foot long, 2-bulb reflectors.  In my case, each bulb is 40 watts, just regular cool whites and warm whites.  Right now, only 2 of these are on (overtop 2 trays of pots), but with time as more pots germinate, the rest will come into use (640 watts total). 

Astragalus purshii - germ in 6 days at room temp after scarifying
Rhodiola rhodantha - germ in 6 days at room temp
Salvia cryptantha - germ in 20 days at room temp

[Gene Mirro]

I'm trying a couple of batches of Dodecatheon pulchellum seed in warm conditions.  I'll let you know what happens.  See also http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=1056.0

[GreenRoofer]

I decided to try growing some western native US species, I'm growing them in 50/50 sand gravel with a little coco peat to hold at least a little moisture. In a window planter, in my closet under a grow light;

Silene armeria
Arabis alpina
Erysimum capitatum
Campanula rotundifolia
Linum perenne
Aquilegia caerula
Eragrostis spectabilis


I'm stoked to see what comes up, these are all seeds that were labeled to not need any seed treatments prior to prop. Mostly from Everwilde, so I'm not sure if they treat them with anything before sale. I've had great luck with their seed prop advice in the past, but I feel their advice only applies to their seed. Their seed prop requirements are almost always different from other sources I read for the same species.

[Cockcroft]

An urge to clean out my refrigerator prompted me to sow just about every seed I'd saved up from years past and all the new ones.  As a result, I have about 350 seed pots holding an odd assortment of seeds.  Everything went out in the weather with no special treatment.

We've been stuck at 40 degrees most days and nights for almost a month now, so I was surprised to see things starting up already.  Sowed in December, 2012, and germinating in January:  Arabis aculeolata, Balsamorhiza rosea, Calandrinia umbellata, Codonopsis pilosula, Delphinium andersonii, Dodecatheon clevelandii ssp. insulare, Primula munroi, Primula waltonii, Saussurea sp., and Symphyandra armena.  The dodecatheon was a Ron Ratko collection in 2003, the arabis in 2005, and the balsamorhiza in 2006.

Also germinating but from a January 20012 sowing are Cyclamen graecum anatolicum, Eranthis pinnatifida, and Lilium humboldtii var. ocellatum.

Heaven help me when it's time to pot things on or plant them out. Many will go to our local NARGS chapter's plant sales (thank goodness). Seed growing is an addiction for me!