Thistles

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Boland
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Title: Member
Joined: 2009-09-25

Trond, that is one scary thistle, whatever it is!

Todd Boland
St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada
Zone 5b
1800 mm precipitation per year

Mark McD
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-12-14

Hoy wrote:

Well, Mark, you are not convinced? The picture in my flora is not quite like those you show, and I don't know what's correct. It is not easy to determine a species from pictures only anyway.

Here's another I haven't name for. Suggestions? (It is from Mt Kenya)

Sorry Trond, I didn't give any context to my links.  I believe your plant (Carduus sp?.JPG) is Jurinea or Jurinella and not a true thistle or Carduus species.  A couple of the links I gave show Jurinella moschus, not ssp. pinnatisecta.  There are several subspecies, it is a highly variable plant... there were some photos I found that show Jurinella moschus with entire, oval leaves, looking very different than the dissected leaf types.  And there are other species too.  In my opinion, the foliage tells me it is Jurinea or Jurinella.

As to your other thistle up on Mt. Kenya, that is a vicious bad boy isn't it?  Did a google search and the information points to it being a Carduus.  Here's a link, not sure if there is more than one species of Carduus up there:
http://wapedia.mobi/en/Natural_history_of_Mount_Kenya

"There are three genera of giant rosette plants; Carduus, Senecio and Lobelia. Carduus keniensis, the giant thistle, is endemic to Mount Kenya"

Mark McDonough
Massachusetts, USA, near the New Hampshire border USDA Zone 5
antennaria at aol.com
 

McGregorUS
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Joined: 2009-12-18

Trond - that really is a great thistle and there is obviously something else making some big rosettes all over the slope. Gigantism is a interesting high altitude alternative to being small like most of the plants we grow in the rock garden.

Malcolm McGregor
Global Moderator/NARGS Editor
East Yorkshire, UK

Mark McD
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-12-14

McGregor wrote:

Mark

All the photographs were taken in northern Morocco around the Rif mountains from just south of Tetouan eastwards as far as Taza.
and here is another one from the Taza area that I haven't got a genus for - if anyone can help

Your dwarf rosette thistle from Taza area is a beauty, but I'm afarid I can't be of much help to ID it.  Just spent some time trying to find flora information on Morocco, and there isn't much out there.  As a consolation, I harvested some interesting photo links of prickly spiny stuff.  I recommend putting your goggles on NOW:  ;D

Carlina sp.
http://apl385.com/leutasch/Carline%20Thistle%20carlina%20sp.jpg

Carlina gummifera
http://www.exploringkatharo.com/largepics/Carlina%20gummifera.jpg

Centaurea raphanina ssp. raphanina
http://www.exploringkatharo.com/largepics/Centaurea%20raphanina%20ssp.%2...

Centaurea raphanina
http://www.stridvall.se/flowers/gallery/Asteraceae_2/AAAA9036
http://www.stridvall.se/flowers/gallery/Asteraceae_2/AAAA9032

Carduncellus monspeliensium
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Carduncellus_monspeliensium_01.JPG

And some particularly vicious pointy plants just for Malcolm  ;D ;D

Carlina curetum
http://www.exploringkatharo.com/largepics/Carlina%20curetum%20ssp.%20cur...

Centaurea benedicta
http://www.exploringkatharo.com/largepics/Centaurea%20benedicta.jpg

Centaurea calcitrapa ssp. calcitrapa
http://www.exploringkatharo.com/largepics/Centaurea%20calcitrapa%20ssp.%...

Centaurea idaea
http://www.exploringkatharo.com/largepics/Centaurea%20idaea.jpg

Centaurea hyalolepis
http://www.stridvall.se/flowers/gallery/Asteraceae_2/719_40

Cirsium creticum ssp. dictaeum
http://www.exploringkatharo.com/largepics/Cirsium%20creticum%20ssp.%20di...

Cynara cardunculus
http://www.stridvall.se/flowers/gallery/Asteraceae_2/426_28

Notobasis syriaca
http://www.stridvall.se/flowers/gallery/Asteraceae_2/289_33

Ptilostemon afer
http://www.stridvall.se/flowers/gallery/Asteraceae_1/330_35

...wouldn't want to traverse this meadow...Carduus carlinoides
http://www.stridvall.se/flowers/gallery/Asteraceae_1/257_32

Mark McDonough
Massachusetts, USA, near the New Hampshire border USDA Zone 5
antennaria at aol.com
 

McGregorUS
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Joined: 2009-12-18

The Cynara cardunculus image is just stunning - and thanks for introducing me to www.stridvall.se

Maybe someone will know this species from Colorado - I'm working on the principle that he Pikes Peak pic is the same species further on and it shows the flowers are actually purple not yellow.

Malcolm McGregor
Global Moderator/NARGS Editor
East Yorkshire, UK

Hoy
Hoy's picture
Title: Member
Joined: 2009-12-15

McGregor wrote:

Trond - that really is a great thistle and there is obviously something else making some big rosettes all over the slope. Gigantism is a interesting high altitude alternative to being small like most of the plants we grow in the rock garden.

Those rosettes are Lobelia sp. I observed at least two different species of lobelia at Mt Kenya.
Malcolm, I should like to grow more thistles  if I had space for them.

Trond
Rogaland, Norway - with cool, often rainy summers  (29C max) and mild, often rainy winters (180 cm/year)!

Lori S.
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-10-27

McGregor wrote:

Maybe someone will know this species from Colorado - I'm working on the principle that he Pikes Peak pic is the same species further on and it shows the flowers are actually purple not yellow.

Cirsium scopulorum?

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.pikespeakphoto.com/imag...

Lori
Calgary, Alberta, Canada - Zone 3
-30 C to +30 C (rarely!); elevation ~1130m; annual precipitation ~40 cm

McGregorUS
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Title: Guest
Joined: 2009-12-18

Certainly looks like a good possibility Lori, thanks. I just thought it was so magnificent - bit like a snow lion - should come from Tibet really.

Malcolm McGregor
Global Moderator/NARGS Editor
East Yorkshire, UK

Mark McD
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-12-14

I was sure that we'd be seeing some great thistly things here with the spiny 2010 growing season... maybe everyone is just saving up their digital photos.  Watching an waiting for some prickly stuff. :D

Mark McDonough
Massachusetts, USA, near the New Hampshire border USDA Zone 5
antennaria at aol.com
 

Peter George
Title: Member
Joined: 2009-09-03

I am growing a few small thistles, Centauria drabifolia and C. achtarovii. The former has spread to about 12 inches and now has multiple flowers, while the latter grows about 4 inches tall and spreads about 6 inches or so. It throws up one bloom, which is followed by a period of dormancy, and then another bloom later in the season. Both are hardy here in Massachusetts, and both are quite beautiful if sited properly so they can be seen easily.

So far (3 years) neither has produced viable seed, but given this summer's weather (HOT) and their Turkish origins, I'm hopeful that their more prolific blooms this year will get me some seeds that will germinate.

Peter George, Petersham, MA (north central MA, close to the NH/VT borders), zones 5b and 6 around the property.

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