Sempervivum

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McKenney
Title: Member
Joined: 2010-11-17

Several years ago I saw for the first time the sempervivum called 'Fame Montrose'. Since then I have acquired two plants, one from a commercial source and one from a friend. I've wondered about the name since first seeing the plant. In particular, what is the significance of the 'Montrose' part.

Today I read on-line something which gives me more reason to wonder. I've learned that this cultivar is prone to sport spontaneously back and forth between normal plants and plants which have the truncated, tubular leaves which characterize 'Fame Montrose'.

Was there/is there a cultivar called 'Fame'? Here's why I'm asking:  in the old days teratological (deformed) forms of plants and animals were sometimes described as monstrous.

So is 'Fame Montrose' a misreading of 'Fame Monstrous'?

And if not, can anyone shed some light on the significance of 'Montrose' in the name?

Here's a link to an image of one of my plants:

http://mcwort.blogspot.com/2011/04/sempervivum-fame-montrose.html

Jim McKenney

Weiser
Title: Member
Joined: 2009-12-04

When dealing with Cacti the term  "Monstrous" deals with abnormal, distorted and disfigured growth of the body, not the apex. A mutant growth form often resembling a club-like shape in cylindrical or columnar cacti and a wavy body shape in cacti that have pads. "Monstrose" and "Monstrosus" are botanical terms used to describe these growth forms.  The general terms, both words mean; like a monster.

From the High Desert Steppe
of the Great Basin and the Eastern
Escarpment of the Sierra Nevada Range
Located in Reno/Sparks,NV  zone 6-7
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sierrarainshadow/
John P Weiser

Lori S.
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-10-27

Hmmm, this topic reminds me of Sempervivum 'Oddity', which is another along the same lines:
 

Lori
Calgary, Alberta, Canada - Zone 3
-30 C to +30 C (rarely!); elevation ~1130m; annual precipitation ~40 cm

RickR
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-09-21

Sorry, nothing to add here, except ... nice web site, and welcome to the NARGS forum, Jim!

I never cared for Oddity, but Montrose Fame is much nicer.

Rick Rodich    zone 4a.    Annual precipitation ~24 inches
near Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA

Lori S.
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-10-27

Echoing what has gone before, welcome to the site, Jim! 
I agree, Rick, 'Fame Monstrose' is much nicer than 'Oddity' - the coloration makes it quite interesting. 

Lori
Calgary, Alberta, Canada - Zone 3
-30 C to +30 C (rarely!); elevation ~1130m; annual precipitation ~40 cm

IMYoung
Title: Member
Joined: 2010-01-31

There is indeed a cultivar S. 'Fame'

As to the odd offspring, that is a matter of some mystery.... firstly, is it really Montrose or is this a typo for Monstrose?
Certainly the monstrose epithet is applicable to this sport of 'Fame' but I have found a reference to  'Fame Montrose' being  having been "Hybridised" by  NICHOLAS MOORE (UK), 1962

Montrose is a Scottish coastal town and also the name of an old title in the peerage - Duke of Montrose so it may have been a little joke on the part of the raiser .... we may never know  :-\

Ian  and/or Margaret Young ( -here it is usually Margaret)

Aberdeen , North East Scotland, UK
Zone 8a

www.srgc.net

McKenney
Title: Member
Joined: 2010-11-17

Thanks for the replies, everyone, and thanks, too, for the welcome. For now I'll stick to 'Fame Montrose' or maybe  " 'Fame Montrose', the monstrous sport of 'Fame' "

I've tried to pull back from participation in the on-line forums because they were (very pleasantly) eating up my life. On top of that, a series of big changes in my garden has left me without much of a garden to speak of. About three years ago things began to fall apart; at first I neglected the little things, then a hurricane took down the pergola (actually a storm took it down first, then no sooner did I get it back up and the hurricane took it down again) , then it was necessary to remove an enormous tree - the place still looks more like a construction site than a garden.

And so while the rest of you are issuing gracious invitations to "come see the garden" I'm dreading the phone calls and the need to explain, again, that my garden is not yet ready for visitors. I'm trying to focus my time and energy into getting the garden back into shape. That means for now a severe cut back in time spent on-line - and it also means (or so he says) that he will not be acquiring lots of new plants this year -well, maybe a few more.

About a year and a half ago my browser spontaneously started to block me from the SRGC site. If I switched to another browser I was able to access the site without a problem. But at the time I did not want to permanently switch browsers, and so I've got a lot of catching up to do at that wonderful site.

To add to my woes (as if this never ending winter  were not woe enough) my computer showed signs of dying in January. It was well into February before I began to take action, and the new box did not arrive until mid-March. Now I'm dealing with all the little bothers which arise when one switches operating systems. That resolution to not buy lots of new plants this year will be easy to follow because all the plant money went for the new computer.

Little by little I'm getting closer to where I want to be. But until I get the garden under control, my time on the forums will be limited.

Thanks again, everyone. 

Jeremy
Title: Guest
Joined: 2009-10-01

Hello All,
Just read the entire thread, having recently become more interested in Semps, in part being inspired by this photo I came across in the Galleries. I love the massed effect. I'll be ordering from Squaw Mountain Gardens (yes, Mark, they are still in business) because they send a hen (or two) and as many as five chicks for the money, which is usually $3.35, and they have a large selection and good photos. They ship bare-root.

They have S. ciliosum but not var. borisii, that seems hard to find. A seller on eBay has it and they seem like a good source for plants, but they charge $3.45 plus $5.25 s&h for a hen in a pot, and that seems high. They carry 'Fame Monstrose' (sic) and have a great photo here: http://cgi.ebay.com/Fame-Monstrose-SEMPERVIVUM-HENS-CHICKS-/120706752093...

So I'm wondering, is var borisii markedly different from the plain species?

Can anyone recommend varieties that are good or more attractive spreaders? Of course I appreciate the individual rosettes, but right now I'd like to experiment with masses of them, even is they're very small masses to begin with.

Jeremy
Uxbridge, MA US Zone 6a
Consider that you might be wrong.

Mark McD
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-12-14

Maggi; thanks for the possibilities on the Fame names... I wonder if there is indeed both a 'Fame Montrose' and a 'Fame Monstrose'?
'Fame Montrose'
http://www.sbohio.com/Photos.php?view=preview&category=16&image=130
'Fame Monstrose'  (other monstrose forms, looking very different from each other, go under the same name, see one more below).
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b11/wood11/Sempervivums/April2008146Sm...
It's been so many years since Nicholas Moore's and David Ford's profuse introductions of delightful semp cultivars, I fear that some of the ensuing confusion may never be straightened out.

Jim, glad to see you over here on NARGS Forum... it's been relatively quite on Alpine-L, and very quite (surprisingly) on Pizza-L ;D, so I'm glad to made the jump to forumville.

Jeremy, your semp planting is picture prefect, exactly the way semps show off best, stitching together rocks with the neat and colorful rosettes!  Inspiring. Maybe bring some to the plant and seedlings sales at NE NARGS meetings ;)  Now that I'm back to work (although at a rather reduced salary), I'm burning up with plant-buying fever, but still must reign in these impulses, although semps are so inexpensive that I might just place an order with Squaw Mountain.

Regarding Sempervivum ciliosum var. borisii, in the Sempervivum & Jovibarba Handbook by Peter Mitchell describes var. borisii "Found growing at Pancerevo, Bulgaria... differs from the species in having much longer hairs making the rosettes appear almost white, more so when grown fully exposed".

Recommend varieties that are attractive spreaders:  there are so many, including species like erythraeum, pittonii, zeleborii, many others.  For a unique color, there is nothing quite like S. 'Nouveau Pastel' which in summer turns a caramel milk chocolate color, and it has tight, neat spreading habit (see photo of it in my round planter, earlier in this topic).  Remind me, and I'll bring a couple rosettes for you at a chapter meeting.  If one likes the ciliate types, like S. ciliosum var. borisii, there are a whole series of hybrids with it that are really choice, here's a few:

Semp 'Raspberry Ice'
http://www.sedumphotos.net/v/semps-nr/Sempervivum+Raspberry+Ice.jpg.html
Semp. 'Georgette'
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/Crazy_Gardener/sempervivums/014.jpg
Semp. 'Ginnie's Delight'
http://www.sedumphotos.net/v/semps-fm/Sempervivum+Ginnie_s+Delight.jpg.html
Semp 'Shirley's Joy'
http://www.sedumphotos.net/v/semps-sz/Sempervivum+Shirleys+Joy.jpg.html
Semp 'Silver Thaw'
http://www.sedumphotos.net/v/semps-sz/Sempervivum+Silver+Thaw.jpg.html

And, a couple more 'Fame' photos:
Semp 'Fame' (1)
http://www.sedumphotos.net/v/semps-fm/Sempervivum+Fame+_1_.jpg.html
...listed as Semp 'Fame' (2) (a thickened leaf monstrose form), can also be seen in the previous photo.  This looks very different than the quilled-leaf form that Jim McKenney shows.
http://www.sedumphotos.net/v/semps-fm/Sempervivum+Fame+_2_.jpg.html

Mark McDonough
Massachusetts, USA, near the New Hampshire border USDA Zone 5
antennaria at aol.com
 

Mark McD
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-12-14

Spring color is starting to show on some of the semps.  Last summer I planted a low dish-shaped planter with sempervivums and our native stone (go back to page 3 of this thread), essentially rescuing some semps and jovibarbas that were nearly lost to neglect and becoming swamped in moss.  The transplanted rosettes were all undersized, but already they are looking much better.

On the left is Jovibarba heuffelii 'Gold Bug', one of the more unusual and bright colored cultivars.  On the right is another view showing 'Gold Bug' at the top, S. zeleborii on the right, and in the forefront is S. 'More Honey', an apt name for a lovely compact cultivar that goes through many color phases.

Mark McDonough
Massachusetts, USA, near the New Hampshire border USDA Zone 5
antennaria at aol.com
 

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