Which Jovibarba?

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Lori S.
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Joined: 2009-10-27
Which Jovibarba?

Which Jovibarba would this be? I'm guessing J. hirta but I know little about these.
All the photos are of the same species. Its winter colour is red, and it's light green in summer. The rosettes get to their maximum size in tufa, which is about 1" (2.5 cm), though most are smaller. Thanks in advance.

Mark McD
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-12-14

Skulski wrote:

Which Jovibarba would this be?  I'm guessing J. hirta but I know little about these.
All the photos are of the same species.  Its winter colour is red, and it's light green in summer.  The rosettes get to their maximum size in tufa, which is about 1" (2.5 cm), though most are smaller.  Thanks in advance.

The good thing about this question, there are only 5 Jovibarba species; J. allionii, arenaria, heufflelii, hirta, and sobolifera.  Distinguishing J. heuffelii is easy and we know it's not that species, the harder part is distinguishing between the 4 remaining similar species.  

Just took a look through The Sempervivum & Jovibarba Handbook by Peter Mitchell, 1973, but the descriptions of the four species are general and without a key.  I think we can also eliminate J. sobolifera, as that species uniquely produces chicks practically sitting on top of the incurved mother rosettes, rendering a distinctive look.  Generally speaking J. allionii has hairy leaves (can be variable), and J. arenaria has incurved leaves/rosettes much like J. sobolifera, therefore all signs point to your plants being J. hirta with its more open summer rosettes.  

Adding to the difficulty, each species is highly variable, and with a number of regional forms of each; these tend to blur the lines between the species. Take a look at the following excellent Sempervivum and Jovibarba site, here's the link to the Jovibarba pages:
http://www.succulents.jp/photolist_jovibarba_index.html

Tips:  the page is in Japanese, but the species names and regional form names use latin plant names, thus legible.  I have the Google Translate plugin for Firefox, however it will not work on these pages because of underlying HTML frames, but since the plant names are legible, that's okay and the site is still a great resource.  Click on the allionii/arenaria tab, hirta tab, and sobolifera tab, each loads a page with many thumbnail images of species variants and regional forms.  The pages have so many thumbnail images, it can be a bit slow to load.  Simply "mouse over" any thumbnail with your cursor to see an enlarged popup image.  Enjoy, but you might feel more uncertain after looking, because some of the J. arenaria forms look like a possibility for your plant as well

Mark McDonough
Massachusetts, USA, near the New Hampshire border USDA Zone 5
antennaria at aol.com
 

Lori S.
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-10-27

That looks like a terrific reference - thanks, Mark!
I'll browse through the pics and see what shakes out.

Lori
Calgary, Alberta, Canada - Zone 3
-30 C to +30 C (rarely!); elevation ~1130m; annual precipitation ~40 cm

Boland
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Title: Member
Joined: 2009-09-25

Hmm,....I see no pictures attached?  I have hirta, sobolifera and heufflellii.

(The forum glitch with Lori's photos not displaying has been fixed - Mark McD)

Todd Boland
St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada
Zone 5b
1800 mm precipitation per year

cohan
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Joined: 2011-02-03

Nice patch, Lori--Sempervivum 'soboliferum' was one of the very first rock garden plants I grew :)
If I recall correctly, according to some, all of the species other than heuffellii have been lumped into one sp.. globifera, maybe? with subspecies for the old sp (others toss them all back in semp)...
These tend to be among the plants--like many succulents such as Haworthias, Gasterias etc--that I don't attempt to name in my collection if they come without data..lol : the searching for a name is fun and educational, but unless (and even if ) you are pretty sure that its a natural clone and not a garden hybrid, a really positive name seems elusive....

I have some to post in the appropriate section one day soon....

west central alberta, canada; just under 1000m; record temps:min -45C/-49F;max 34C/93F; http://picasaweb.google.ca/cactuscactus  http://urbanehillbillycanada.blogspot.com/

Boland
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Joined: 2009-09-25

Looks like S. hirta to me...soboliferum (at least mine labelled as such) has rounded tips on the leaves.  Hirta (again, labelled as such), has the finer tips as shown on Lori's plants.  Also my soboliferum stays green all winter while hirta turns purple-tinted.

Todd Boland
St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada
Zone 5b
1800 mm precipitation per year

Hoy
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Title: Member
Joined: 2009-12-15

Trond
Rogaland, Norway - with cool, often rainy summers  (29C max) and mild, often rainy winters (180 cm/year)!

cohan
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Joined: 2011-02-03

Here's a page (forum) that lists descriptions etc by species..
http://sempervivum.aforumfree.com/c4-jovibarba-species-and-cultivars

If you want, Lori, I could post your pic there and see what the semp experts have to say...

west central alberta, canada; just under 1000m; record temps:min -45C/-49F;max 34C/93F; http://picasaweb.google.ca/cactuscactus  http://urbanehillbillycanada.blogspot.com/

Mark McD
Title: Moderator
Joined: 2009-12-14

Cohan, that forum requires registration.  I had forgotten about that forum, and checking my records, I do have a login and password, but it tells me the account was inactive too long, and refuses to let me in, requiring to send a message to the forum administrator, which I did.

Mark McDonough
Massachusetts, USA, near the New Hampshire border USDA Zone 5
antennaria at aol.com
 

cohan
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Title: Guest
Joined: 2011-02-03

McDonough wrote:

Cohan, that forum requires registration.  I had forgotten about that forum, and checking my records, I do have a login and password, but it tells me the account was inactive too long, and refuses to let me in, requiring to send a message to the forum administrator, which I did.

oops, sorry, I should have checked the link unlogged!

west central alberta, canada; just under 1000m; record temps:min -45C/-49F;max 34C/93F; http://picasaweb.google.ca/cactuscactus  http://urbanehillbillycanada.blogspot.com/

Boland
Boland's picture
Title: Member
Joined: 2009-09-25

It looks like my ID's have been switched!  Well nice to kinow their real names.

Todd Boland
St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada
Zone 5b
1800 mm precipitation per year

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